Proposal: PH2 and SORCERER

[TwoHeadsBarking]

Oh God. Oh no. Oh God. I, I didn't mean... *riffles through pockets looking for change, condoms, a rolex...* Quick, somebody get a doctor. Ooo, bubble gum!

Oh no! What did you do?

See, this is what happens when you want things! I thought I warned you about this!

 

[Don Incognito]

Wait wait wait, back up a second. You don't like Weapon Expertise because it is "too good". So you decide to give it to all characters for free? Please explain to me how that makes sense.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Wait wait wait, back up a second. You don't like Weapon Expertise because it is "too good". So you decide to give it to all characters for free? Please explain to me how that makes sense.

It turns out that monster defense bonuses go up faster than character attack bonuses, so (paradoxically) the higher your level, the less often you hit. This is a problem. Wizards' solution was to add some new "give me a hit bonus that I should have gotten in the first place" feats.

The problem isn't that these feats are too powerful compared to the monsters you'll be fighting - people seem to agree they're just powerful enough to cover the gap. The problem is that they're too powerful relative to other feats. Everyone needs to use up one of their feat slots to take a Weapon Expertise (or Implement Expertise) feat. Otherwise they're being a sucker.

Giving them (or some equivalent bonus) to everybody keeps everyone on the same level.

 

[fireinthedust]

Oh no! What did you do?

See, this is what happens when you want things! I thought I warned you about this!

*munch* *munch* *blow* *pop* Shorry!


Expert Feats: Um, where are they? I can't find them in my print copy. Not in the glossary, the table of contents, or the Feat chapter for the various Tiers (checked Heroic, Epic...nope).

 

[renau1g]

It turns out that monster defense bonuses go up faster than character attack bonuses, so (paradoxically) the higher your level, the less often you hit. This is a problem. Wizards' solution was to add some new "give me a hit bonus that I should have gotten in the first place" feats.

The problem isn't that these feats are too powerful compared to the monsters you'll be fighting - people seem to agree they're just powerful enough to cover the gap. The problem is that they're too powerful relative to other feats. Everyone needs to use up one of their feat slots to take a Weapon Expertise (or Implement Expertise) feat. Otherwise they're being a sucker.

Giving them (or some equivalent bonus) to everybody keeps everyone on the same level.

Agreed and for some classes (Swordmages) they burn 2 feats . The reasoning is that these flavourless feats are for most purposes a "feat tax" the same as a ranged character having to take precise shot or else take a -4 to hit in 3.Xe. You'd be stupid not to take it, so therefore you had one less feat through your characters lifetime, which was more of a problem in 3e, but still...

I know my RL DM gives it to us at 5th, 15th, and 25th, a static +1 (same as expertise). He mentioned a bunch of other RL DM's he's spoken with do the same.

 

[Oni]

Regarding expertise I'd much rather a static bonus or banning it altogether. Quoting myself from the nerf thread.

Expertise: I feel required to take this feat because missing sucks. I'm not fond of a feat tax to fix a math error no one wants to own up to. On the flip side disallowing it or making it a freebie to everyone ensures that the hit gap between melee and spellcaster stays firmly in place. If you're a high accuracy class there are more interesting things to take so you're unlikely to have it until at least mid paragon, but then we're back to the same old same old. Blah. Also of note there is a similar feat in the works for weapon and implement split classes in the works for the PHB3 I believe. Suggestion, either completely drop it and its kin, or just give out a +1,+2,+3 heroic/paragon/epic bonus to hit. The ones that need that to hit the most are the ones split between weapons and implements everyone else is pretty much only going to be using their implement group or weapon of choice so you're either making people make a non-choice or punishing those that really need it most.

 

[fireinthedust]

Ah, I see now. Um... well, the idea of a Feat Tax is annoying. As a DM I worry that the PCs are too tough at early Heroic, and I haven't gone higher than level 5 in my game or in other 4e games.

I don't mind the idea of a free Expertise Feat as part of the Setting package. Like how folks get a Background (regional), they can also get an expertise feat.
In theory. Does R&D have anything to say on the subject?

 

[Don Incognito]

Of COURSE the chance to hit goes down in higher levels. It was my understanding that high levels of play are SUPPOSED to be more difficult than the lower ones. That's kind of how games work; they get harder as you go along.

 

[renau1g]

Not according to the designers though. They want to maintain a 50% hit rate. The battles get harder as monsters get more abilities and hit you for more, but if you're missing all the time the game becomes a grind-fest of at-will after at-will until you or them are dead. Not my kind of fun.

 

[Oni]

Of COURSE the chance to hit goes down in higher levels. It was my understanding that high levels of play are SUPPOSED to be more difficult than the lower ones. That's kind of how games work; they get harder as you go along.

I like to think that the game becomes more challenging for reasons other than the random number generator has reduced your odds of success.