quickened touch spells?

[mikebr99]

IMC, I'd allow you to deliver two touch spells in one round, but only if you have iterative attacks.

If you're a 12th-level wizard, you have BAB +6/+1, so go ahead and make that second touch attack (at your lower bonus). A Wiz11 could cast his quickened second spell, but wouldn't be able to touch with it until the following round.

I see no reason that quickening a spell's casting should give the wizard a free iterative attack at no BAB penalty.

Great idea!

 

[Caliban]

That is because the actual casting of a touch spell is almost so short as to be a free action already... The spells were designed to be very quick casting anyway so there was still time to touch someone in the same round.

Really? Exactly where does it state this in the PHB?

The only benefit of Quickening a touch spell IMO... would be to eliminate the AoO from casting.

That would be a house rule. By the core rules, if you cast a touch spell you can immediately do a "touch" (or even move and then touch). Casting it as a Quickened spell does not change that.

 

[mikebr99]

Really? Exactly where does it state this in the PHB?

It doesn't... I am just trying to read between the lines.

That would be a house rule. By the core rules, if you cast a touch spell you can immediately do a "touch" (or even move and then touch). Casting it as a Quickened spell does not change that.

I was under the impression that Quicken made the actual casting of a spell a "free action"... not that it also gave you an extra partial action in which to deliver a touch. But I guess I'm wrong. Or does it then change the touch attack into a free action?

Isn't there a touch spell that gives you multiple uses based on your level? If you Quickened that could you touch as many people in a round as your movement would allow since all these touches would be free actions? Or could you touch someone 30 times (if you were 30th level)?

 

[reiella]

Hmm, related to this at least.

Do you risk an AoO when casting a quickened spell (or any other Free Action)?

 

[mikebr99]

Hmm, related to this at least.

Do you risk an AoO when casting a quickened spell (or any other Free Action)?

Nope... Quickened spells do not provoke an AoO:

Does casting a quickened spell provoke an attack of
opportunity? Can a counterattack or counterspell be
readied against a quickened spell or is it too quick to
identify or counter?
A quickened spell does not provoke an attack of opportunity
(see Table 8–4 in the Player’s Handbook). A quickened spell
can be counterspelled using the normal rules.

 

[Caliber]

A Touch spells allows what amounts to an attack as a Free Action with its casting.

Casting two Touch spells a round would simply give you two Touch attacks.

As for Quickened Touch attacks that have multiple charges:

It isn't really the Quicken that is allowing you the second Touch attack. Casting the second Touch spell gives you another attack. So you could cast a Touch spell, touch someone, cast a Quickened Touch spell that gives you a number of charges, touch someone again, and next round still have all of your charges -1.

 

[Caliban]

It doesn't... I am just trying to read between the lines.
I was under the impression that Quicken made the actual casting of a spell a "free action"... not that it also gave you an extra partial action in which to deliver a touch. But I guess I'm wrong. Or does it then change the touch attack into a free action?

The first "touch" is always a free action on the round you cast the spell. Otherwise you could never cast a touch spell and then touch your target in the same round (without being hasted first).

Seriously, check the section of the PHB on touch spells. It explains all this.

Isn't there a touch spell that gives you multiple uses based on your level?

Yup. But you only get one "free" touch on the round you cast the spell.

If you Quickened that could you touch as many people in a round as your movement would allow since all these touches would be free actions? Or could you touch someone 30 times (if you were 30th level)?

Nope. After your initial "free touch" on the round you cast the spell, it takes an attack/full attack action to touch your target after that. If you have multiple attacks, you can attempt to touch your target multiple times by taking a full attack action (or if hasted).

 

[Shalewind]

Alrighty...

PH pg 84:

You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell.

And PH pg 151:

If you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinately. You can make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend (or yourself) as a standard action or up to six friends as a full round action.

From these we can find out how the touch action works with the spell.

A cleric can move (move action) cast his touch spell (standard action) and touch a target (free action or part of the casting, it doesn't really matter) in ONE round.

Note that the touch is listed as a standard action so you know how much time it takes if you are "Holding the Charge". Not so that you would have to take an additional action to touch the target. If it took a standard action, then you couldn't touch a target and cast the spell in the same round unless hasted. And that doesn't make good sense. Touch attacks are assumed to be part of the spell (hence the "IF you don't discharge" from the above quote).

Thus, with a quickened spell - you get a casting as a free action. If doesn't take another standard action to touch a target.

Edit: Sorry for the near repitition... Caliban has beaten me few five minutes... I bow to your superior speed typing...

 

[ruleslawyer]

Let's at least be clear about this, shall we? I trust Caliban's interpretations as though they came from the top of the Mountain, but I'd like to understand exactly what we're saying here.

As I see it, a caster certainly can move, cast a 1-action touch spell, and touch an opponent all in one round. This is based on the fact that the PHB specifically lists "us[ing] a touch spell on self" as a standard action, and that the PHB states that "in the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target." The PHB therefore must be suggesting that casting the spell and touching the target combine into one standard action, because the default for touching someone in combat is either an attack (a/k/a standarda action) or a standard action independent of any spellcasting. See PHB, p.151 ("You can touch one friend (or yourself) as a standard action"), while casting the spell is also a separate standard action.

Where I disagree with others on this board is in the contention that a caster can cast a regular touch spell, touch a target, cast a second quickened touch spell, and touch a target with THAT spell all in one round. I do not think that this is possible. Nor does the PHB explicitly endorse that this is possible. The relevant clause simply says: "n the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target." It does not say that a lack of remaining actions in the round has no effect on combining a touch spell and touch in the same round. I am inclined to believe that while the casting of a 1-action (or quickened) touch spell can be subsumed into a touch attack, the touch attack cannot be subsumed into a quickened spell as a free action. IMHO, it's simply illogical. Does this mean that if I'm a monk, I can deliver a quickened spell with an unarmed attack after taking all of my iterative attacks for the round?

IOW, I think that touch spell + touch + quickened touch spell + move is fine for a round, but that the caster has to wait until his next turn to touch an opponent and deliver the quickened touch spell.