R&C Art, the Women of R&C

[Ycore Rixle]

Too bad for you.

I may criticizes feminism, I agree with them on such stupidity. Fantasy needs to grow up and open to the non-white, non-male, non-nerd.

There are many feminists who support chainmail bikinis, or, at least, pinup art (and more) in general. Camille Paglia is first and foremost. Wendy McElroy is another.

But it really comes down to artistic preferences. On the one hand, there's art that is politically correct and not Romantic. On the other hand, there are chainmail bikinis. I strongly support the chainmail bikini. The game is a fantasy game, chainmail bikinis are fantasy fun, and they don't hurt anyone.

 

[Barastrondo]

There are many feminists who support chainmail bikinis, or, at least, pinup art (and more) in general. Camille Paglia is first and foremost. Wendy McElroy is another.

I'm personally not wild about pinup art being treated as an illustration, though. There's a difference in purpose. An illustration is something you should be able to point to and say "Yes, that's what the things/people/geography you run into in the game world is going to look like." A chainmail bikini might make a fine pinup, but it's a pretty cruddy illustration for a lot of campaigns (including mine, to admit personal bias). Same deal as monsters not looking the way you want them to look, really.

I prefer characters being dressed in more practical clothing so that I can say "She's kind of dressed like the character on page 13." With pinup art posing as illustrations, the art has less utility for illustrative purposes, outside of "Okay, the image on page three? You see that hanging on the wall, painted on black velvet, in the tyrant's bedchamber, right next to the black velvet Boris Vallejo-looking oiled guy with the tyrant's face."

 

[mara]

There are many feminists who support chainmail bikinis, or, at least, pinup art (and more) in general. Camille Paglia is first and foremost. Wendy McElroy is another.

But it really comes down to artistic preferences. On the one hand, there's art that is politically correct and not Romantic. On the other hand, there are chainmail bikinis. I strongly support the chainmail bikini. The game is a fantasy game, chainmail bikinis are fantasy fun, and they don't hurt anyone.

Citing a date rape apologist to excuse your ogling isn't establishing feminist cred. It's more honest just to ogle.

 

[Ycore Rixle]

I'm personally not wild about pinup art being treated as an illustration, though. There's a difference in purpose. An illustration is something you should be able to point to and say "Yes, that's what the things/people/geography you run into in the game world is going to look like."

Good point. I think the core books should contain a mix of styles to suit the many different tastes out there. I'm just saying that the chainmail bikini style should be one of those styles, and that there's nothing wrong with it. As ThatGuyThere pointed out a post or two above mine, there are many women who want their characters to look like pinup art. Different strokes for different folks, and all styles are welcome in the core books, in my opinion.

Edit: mara, Camille Paglia and Wendy McElroy are respected feminists with major impacts on the movement, and they don't deserve to be smeared that way. I'm going to stop now since these boards aren't the place for any of this, but feel free to email me.

 

[Barastrondo]

Good point. I think the core books should contain a mix of styles to suit the many different tastes out there. I'm just saying that the chainmail bikini style should be one of those styles, and that there's nothing wrong with it. As ThatGuyThere pointed out a post or two above mine, there are many women who want their characters to look like pinup art. Different strokes for different folks, and all styles are welcome in the core books, in my opinion.

It just strikes me as weirdly counter to the idea that the dungeon is a dangerous place. I mean, we're talking about a game that would punish you for being the least bit careless about listening at doors, walking down a corridor, opening or even touching a chest, entering a pool of water, letting your skin touch a statue or idol or gem or monster — how exactly does that jive with "but you don't even bother to wear a durable pair of pants?" It does kind of imply that the character's an idiot (or that the DM will be a big softie and never let you come to any harm), and if there's a bias toward female characters dressing like idiots for the sake of titillation, yeah, I can see an ugly implication there.

 

[mara]

Good point. I think the core books should contain a mix of styles to suit the many different tastes out there. I'm just saying that the chainmail bikini style should be one of those styles, and that there's nothing wrong with it. As ThatGuyThere pointed out a post or two above mine, there are many women who want their characters to look like pinup art. Different strokes for different folks, and all styles are welcome in the core books, in my opinion.

Edit: mara, Camille Paglia and Wendy McElroy are respected feminists with major impacts on the movement, and they don't deserve to be smeared that way. I'm going to stop now since these boards aren't the place for any of this, but feel free to email me.

I know who they are and I'm not retracting my comment (which was aimed at Paglia). I'll leave it at that.

 

[Gloombunny]

I absolutely despise bikinimail, cleavage windows on breastplates, and all the other slutty armor crap.

That said, I wouldn't really mind if it shows up in 4e art sometimes, provided that a) it's relatively rare, and b) it doesn't try to be subtle. Pinup babes are a trope of the genre, after all. Just don't let them become the dominant portrayal of women in the art, and don't try to sneak sexy bits of bared skin into normal pictures. A picture of a D&D woman should either be a serious portrayal of a tough and competent adventurer, or fantasy-themed cheesecake. Trying to do both at once is insulting.

 

[Rechan]

A picture of a D&D woman should either be a serious portrayal of a tough and competent adventurer, or fantasy-themed cheesecake. Trying to do both at once is insulting.

Agreed.

And, putting a gnoll or medusa in a chainmail bikini, and then saying "Look, it's even, cuz they're ugly!" doesn't cut it either.

 

[Wolfspider]

So, no more boob-windows?

 

[Gloombunny]

So, no more boob-windows?

Those are, honestly, worse than armored bikinis.