D&D General RA Salvatore Wants To Correct Drizzt’s Racist Tropes

In an interview with Polygon, the author talks about how the drow are currently being redefined in D&D, and how he wants to be part of that process.

”But on the other hand, if the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away, be buried under the deepest pit, and never brought out again. I was unaware of that. I admit it. I was oblivious.

Drow are now split into (at least) three types — the familiar Udadrow of Menzoberranzan, the arctic-themed Aevendrow, and the jungle-themed Lorendrow. Salvatore's new novel, Starlight Enclave, helps to expand the drows' role in the narrative.

D&D’s Drizzt books were built on racist tropes. R.A. Salvatore wants to change that

‘If the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away’

www.polygon.com

In 2020 WotC made a public statement about how they would be treating drow and orcs going forward -- "Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. "

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[Shardstone]

Speaking as someone of color:

The issue isn't the drow, its that the way the drow were characterized emboldened a lot of racists over the last 40~ years of this hobby to twist a lot of knives, throw a lot of daggers, and overall degenerate the experiences of minorities by pointing to drow. That sounds weird, but I've seen it happen, and I've seen the racial slurs thrown about, and if you know where to look on the internet, you'll see it yourself.

 

[Umbran]

Ehhhhhh...

"If you'd been a -white- man who grew up in the 60s it -might- not have been obvious to you" would be a better thing to write, there.

Yeah. But fixing speech patterns is hard, even if you've done a good job of changing your mind. I know that, to this day, I sometimes have to go back over my writing to remove gender specificity, and I probably still miss bits from time to time.

Perfect? No. An improvement and actually a point that he admitted his error in public and is taking steps to make things better? That's pretty darned good.

 

[Reynard]

Something doesn't have to be made with racist intent in order for it to be racist. Intent is nowhere in the definition of racism. In fact, I'd posit that most racist* depictions we see are not intended at all, but rather made out of not knowing any better (including but not limited to never being the one impacted by the racism, so you don't see it when you're making it, or growing up where such things are accepted, etc.)

*or sexist, or homoophobic, or anything else

^^^This is the most important post in this thread. Racism is a thing people are subjected to. Even white people. It does things to us. The impact on white people is often that we internalize racist tropes and perpetuate them without being aware of it. And when we are called on it, we often react negatively because we feel attacked because someone is calling us "racist" even though we, ourselves, don't believe we are. Being called "a racist" hurts.

But here is the thing: the racism is something we can overcome and learn to undo to ourselves, but only if we listen and we realize the difference between "that's racist" and "you're a racist."

 

[Umbran]

But here is the thing: the racism is something we can overcome and learn to undo to ourselves, but only if we listen and we realize the difference between "that's racist" and "you're a racist."

There's a long, slow job to be done to peel apart meanings - differentiation between "racist" and "bigoted" for example, can do a lot of good.

 

[Laurefindel]

Speaking as someone of color:

The issue isn't the drow, its that the way the drow were characterized emboldened a lot of racists over the last 40~ years of this hobby to twist a lot of knives, throw a lot of daggers, and overall degenerate the experiences of minorities by pointing to drow. That sounds weird, but I've seen it happen, and I've seen the racial slurs thrown about, and if you know where to look on the internet, you'll see it yourself.

True.

and it can be quite subversive. The jokes we used to make about black people weren’t worse in terms of magnitude than those we made about asians, French (from France), Americans (no offense), blondes, buffed-up kids, geeks (as a derogative term), redneck Quebecers, and people from the province of Newfoundland. Jokes were dubious at best, but none were made (by me anyway) with any bit of hatred toward whoever was the butt of the joke.

What we (I) failed to see is that even if the magnitude of the joke was the same, the sensibility of those concerned wasn’t. And even if our casual jokes were « harmless », it enabled those with real racism issues to expose them just as casually.

 

[lyle.spade]

How long have you been on EN World? There's not a single thing related to D&D (a completely fictional game) that doesn't cause people to freak out over it... especially when it gets changed.

Take a look at some of these threads... there are hundreds of thousands of words and minutes spent going on and on and on complaining about every single facet of this fictional game. And while it might be interesting to do a search to see if there have been any threads in the past where you have posted about stuff in the game that had gotten you all pissed off... I actually don't care enough to do so. But it would not shock me if there was. People find all sorts of ridiculous parts of this game to lose sleep over, so we all have to be careful not to throw stones.

I can't remember a time that I got hung up on lore/canon changes, because I know that this is all made up, and that I can make any changes I'd like at my table. I have gotten annoyed - actually, more disheartened - at the intensity with which many on this site (and elsewhere online) react to things they don't like.

 

[pumasleeve]

Something doesn't have to be made with racist intent in order for it to be racist. Intent is nowhere in the definition of racism. In fact, I'd posit that most racist* depictions we see are not intended at all, but rather made out of not knowing any better (including but not limited to never being the one impacted by the racism, so you don't see it when you're making it, or growing up where such things are accepted, etc.)

*or sexist, or homoophobic, or anything else

This is a consequentialist definition of racism. While I agree that the discussion of how various groups are affected by media tropes and the like is an important one as well, I have a problem with the use of the word racist as a blank slate equal definition to all actors involved. If one is going to make an assertion the any specific person is racist (and im not saying you or anyone else here did) Intent is crucial to establish. Keep in mind that when discussing racism, biases, prejudices, we are using powerful words that can have a profound affect on peoples lives.

 

[Laurefindel]

There's a long, slow job to be done to peel apart meanings - differentiation between "racist" and "bigoted" for example, can do a lot of good.

Indeed,

Whenever we are pointed as being racist or a racist, the knee jerk reaction is to say « no I’m not ». And since im not a racist, whatever I just said, or did, therefore must not be racist either.

many other words would have had me reconsider my thoughts, but being called « a racist » usually have the opposite effect.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Please, if you really want to help for the end of the hate and the intolerance you shouldn't forget we have to defend the respect for the human dignity, the core of our rights as citizens. Without this the rebel against the authority can become a new tyrant. Nietzsche warned who fights against monsters should take care to not become one.

 

[Tsuga C]

Salvatore is a blatant liar. From the get-go, the Drow were portrayed as racially/genetically evil or, at the very least, morally tainted. Their introduction in the Fiend Folio and the Queen of the Demonweb Pits module certainly drove that portrayal home. He could not have possibly missed this if he'd given AD&D materials anything more than the briefest of cursory glances.

And that's just how I like the Drow and the orcs and the gnolls and the ogres, etc... I'm an early GenXer and this retcon genuflecting and groveling inspires a great deal of invective that shall remain unwritten. I disapprove and I'll leave it at that.