D&D General Railroads, Illusionism, and Participationism

[Blue]

I mean this is a clear meta mechanic. It has the player to make decisions that their character is not making (presumably the character doesn't knowingly decide when the luck manifests) and at least as you presented it, leads to reality editing.

I literally banned lucky feat from my 5e campaign, granted, mostly because it is absurdly good and overshadows other feats. Though I don't think e5 lucky really results any reality editing, as it is just a reroll. It doesn't actually let the character do anything they hadn't a chance to do in the first place.

Yes, the Lucky option is a meta mechanic - luck is not controlled by the character.

Now, i sees you would not enjoy it. Do you accept that some games, like 5e with it's Lucky feat or Diviner feature, can have meta mechanics and still be valid RPGs that some enjoy?

Basically, I'm trying to determine if this is a personal preference, or if you think everyone who plays D&D with meta mechanics are doing something wrong.

 

[Scott Christian]

All this would be solved were we to see video of play - on all sides.

 

[FrogReaver]

Is there any reason to think the Orc is so unwell as to collapse from exertion? Or is it already established that the Orc is hale and hearty (eg CON of 16, as per the 5e D&D SRD).

Has the PC undertaken an actual medical examination of the Orc? Or is it the player who is conjecturing a possibility, and seeking a roll to confirm it?

I think your example is trading on a lack of fictional positioning to present something that is rather arbitrary as analogous to something that is not at all arbitrary (ie a scholar who has studied the lore of a region reflecting on her knowledge to recall what she has learned).

I'd be interested to see the reaction to a similar scene with the following modifications. 'Backstory is that PC and Orc are about to engage in combat' 'PC says I want to Spout Lore (or equivalent) about orc physiology so that I may determine orcs weak points so I can more easily defeat him'.

1. Would that be a valid move?
2. What would the DM author on a success?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yes, the Lucky option is a meta mechanic - luck is not controlled by the character.

That doesn't answer if, within the bounds of playing a game with such a luck attribute, you would accept the outcomes.

(As a side note, "I wouldn't play such a game, but I can see that people who enjoy that type of thing would abide by it" may also be a true answer - that type of meta mechanic isn't everyone's cup of tea to play. Nothing is better, just different.)

Games with such mechanics are not my favourite, but it's not a deal breaker either. And in general I'm fine with trying different sort of games, I don't need to eat my favourite food every day either.

 

[FrozenNorth]

This doesn't look to me like a description of a peasant revolt. Which bit of the feudal order is being overthrown?

This goes back to a point another poster raised. At some point, a player accepts the premise of the game. Just like in Blades of the Dark, I don’t choose to play a law-abiding cabbage farmer.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Sorry, I did reply to someone who quoted the same post. This is what I said:

This is a discussion about how games work, an analysis of play, it's not what I'd be doing to teach the game. I don't know if some of the posters in this thread would raise the same objections to an actual game.

 

[FrogReaver]

This goes back to a point another poster raised. At some point, a player accepts the premise of the game. Just like in Blades of the Dark, I don’t choose to play a law-abiding cabbage farmer.

I think we have a name for accepting the premise of the game, participationism!

Those down right dirty, good for nothing participationists!

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

All this would be solved were we to see video of play - on all sides.

Ha ha! No.

Optimism is the triumph of hope over experience.

 

[FrogReaver]

This goes back to a point another poster raised. At some point, a player accepts the premise of the game. Just like in Blades of the Dark, I don’t choose to play a law-abiding cabbage farmer.

2nd thought on this - How would Blades of the Dark play if you did try to play a law abiding cabbage farmer?

 

[FrogReaver]

All this would be solved were we to see video of play - on all sides.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours?