Rainbow Ray vs Scorching Ray

[Werebat]

OK, I'm trying to build a rainbow themed wizard PC. I know the power choice is Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, but I'm going to go with a gnome wildmage here for a variety of reasons.

I'm going to go with the Domain Wizard variant from UA. My homebrew "Rainbow Domain" (already accepted by the DM) is:

1. Color Spray
2. Rainbow Ray
3. Rainbow Blast
4. Rainbow Pattern (Blech, but it fits the theme)
5. Prismatic Ray
6. Prismatic Aura
7. Prismatic Spray (or maybe Radiant Assault)
8. Prismatic Wall
9. Prismatic Deluge

Since I can sub metamagicked versions of lower level domain spells for domain spells of any given level, I planned on taking Split Ray to use with Prismatic Ray in order to put something useful in my 4th level domain slot (because Rainbow Pattern sucks THAT HARD).

Then I took a good look at Rainbow Ray compared to Scorching Ray.

The two spells are almost identical -- 2nd level short-range ray spells that cause energy damage. Scorching Ray is always fire damage, while Rainbow Ray does a random type of energy damage (including "poison" and "force" damage, which few if any opponents have resistance to). Rainbow Ray also dazzles its victims for 1 minute, no save.

Overall the random energy damage plus dazzling effect would seem to give Rainbow Ray a *slight* advantage over Scorching Ray, so I would expect it to do slightly less damage.

However, when I look at the numbers, it gets ugly.

Scorching Ray shoots out rays of fire that do 4d6 damage. At 3rd level (the lowest level one can cast the spell), you get one ray. at 7th level you get 2 rays, and at 11th level you get 3 rays (the max). These rays can be targetted at one or multiple targets.

Rainbow Ray shoots one ray, to one target. It does 1d12 damage at 3rd level -- HALF what Scorching Ray does. Every 3 levels it does another d12 damage, to a maximum of 5d12 at level 15.

Much of the time, Rainbow Ray does HALF of the damage of Scorching Ray.

I feel like things would be evened out more if Rainbow Ray did 1d12 damage PLUS 1d12 per 3 caster levels, which would start the caster off at 2d12 at level 3. Even if the spell still capped off at 5d12, this would happen earlier (level 12), only one level after Scorching Ray capped off. It would still seem less powerful than Scorching Ray, but it wouldn't suck quite as hard compared to that spell.

What do you think? Am I missing something or is Rainbow Ray as written just completely inferior to it's PHB cousin Scorching Ray? Would my proposed boost (1d12 plus 1d12 per 3 levels, maxed out at 5d12) be a reasonable solution? Too much, not enough?

- Ron ^*^

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think part of the alance is that for Scorching Ray, it's separate rays, so energy resistance 5 cuts the damage significantly, and resistance 10+ practically kills it. Then when you consider it's strictly fire damage, and fire is the most commonly resisted energy type...

 

[Nifft]

2nd level spell that imposes a condition penalty on a target at range, no save? That's hot. Oh, and it does some damage too?

If you think of it more as a debuff than as a direct damage spell, is it worth taking? IMHO pretty much yes. It's a nice flexible spell... though IMHO if you wanted to boost it, it'd be better to be able to specify the energy type than to deal more damage. Any number of d12s of fire damage are useless against a salamander. Perhaps ask for one die roll every 5 levels, maximum of 3 simultaneous rolls at 15th level, and the player chooses which die roll he wants to keep.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Cheiromancer]

As you note, Werebat, a Rainbow Ray often bypasses energy resistance. Scorching Ray, as StreamOfTheSky notes, is particularly susceptible to energy resistance. There's also the fact that Scorching Ray is rather high powered for its level. If Rainbow Ray were perfectly balanced it would be less powerful than Scorching Ray. The dazzle effect is rather weak, but is a small point in the favor of Rainbow Ray. I don't think that doing 1/2 to 3/4 the damage of a Scorching Ray is unreasonable.

But I do think that doing 2d12 (average damage 13) when a Scorching Ray is doing 4d6 (average damage 14) is a too good.

 

[Werebat]

As you note, Werebat, a Rainbow Ray often bypasses energy resistance. Scorching Ray, as StreamOfTheSky notes, is particularly susceptible to energy resistance. There's also the fact that Scorching Ray is rather high powered for its level. If Rainbow Ray were perfectly balanced it would be less powerful than Scorching Ray. The dazzle effect is rather weak, but is a small point in the favor of Rainbow Ray. I don't think that doing 1/2 to 3/4 the damage of a Scorching Ray is unreasonable.

But I do think that doing 2d12 (average damage 13) when a Scorching Ray is doing 4d6 (average damage 14) is a too good.

Remember that the ability to multitarget can be seen as an advantage, too! Rainbow Beam doesn't have this valuable feature!

Dazzle is almost a non-ability. -1 to hit, -1 to Spot and Search checks. Woo. Worth a 50% reduction in average damage? No, no, no...

So far the ONLY reason I can see to take Rainbow Beam over Scorching Ray is for those rare occasions when you are fighting something with fire resistance. That's it. And even then there's a greater then 1-in-8 chance that you'll be hitting it with fire damage anyway.

This makes the spell seem pretty sucktastic to me. Would you choose it over Scorching Ray?

I *can* think of a (convoluted) way to make it useful over Scorching Ray. You'd need Arcane Thesis (Rainbow Beam), Split Ray, and Ocular Spell. Arcane Thesis puts you at +2 caster level for purposes of casting Rainbow Beam, so that narrows the gaping chasm between damage a little bit. Let's say you're 7th level (doing 8d6 fire damage with a Scorching Ray and 2d12 with Rainbow Beam). Now because you have AT Rainbow Beam, you are actually casting it at 9th caster level so it does 3d12 damage. Woo.

OK, now you have to memorize two Twin Ocular Rainbow Beams. Cast one in each eye. Now you can spend a full-round action to shoot two twinned rainbow beams out of your eyes -- that's four beams for a total of 12d12 damage.

If you tried this trick with the scorching ray, you would only get one extra 4d6 damage ray from split ray, which would bring your damage up to 24d6. Yep, about the same as the Rainbow Beams.

So, if you use a very specific trick involving three feats, Rainbow Beam is actually a bit better than Scorching Ray.

But only if you use that specific trick. And, again, only if whatever you are fighting has resistance to fire damage.

- Ron ^*^

 

[Werebat]

2nd level spell that imposes a condition penalty on a target at range, no save? That's hot. Oh, and it does some damage too?

If you think of it more as a debuff than as a direct damage spell, is it worth taking? IMHO pretty much yes. It's a nice flexible spell... though IMHO if you wanted to boost it, it'd be better to be able to specify the energy type than to deal more damage. Any number of d12s of fire damage are useless against a salamander. Perhaps ask for one die roll every 5 levels, maximum of 3 simultaneous rolls at 15th level, and the player chooses which die roll he wants to keep.

Cheers, -- N

"Debuff"? Please -- dazzle just isn't worth it. -1 to hit, -1 to Spot and Search checks. That's it. That's all it does.

Remember also that because the energy type is random, you have a chance of matching the energy resistance of ANYTHING you fight that has energy resistance, be it to cold, acid, electricity, what-have-you. So sure, the randomized energy will usually beat out scorching ray when you are fighting things with fire resistance, but then again when you are fighting things with any other resistance the scorching ray has no chance of being resisted, while Rainbow Beam does.

Again, worth a 50% reduction in damage? I just don't see it.

Perhaps whoever wrote the spell thought that "dazzled" did something more than what it really does.

- Ron ^*^

 

[Nifft]

This is a buff spell:

Aid
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Clr 2, Good 2, Luck 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Aid grants the target a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and saves against fear effects, plus temporary hit points equal to 1d8 + caster level (to a maximum of 1d8+10 temporary hit points at caster level 10th).


... so yes, a spell which imposes a comparable penalty on a target is a de-buff. -1 to attacks isn't a bad thing at all, particularly at the levels where the damage starts to outstrip other 2nd level spells. Dazzled is nice because very few things impose the condition, and thus it's likely to stack. Does the spell do anything particularly nasty to Drow and other light-sensitive races? If not, that could be an interesting bonus.

But just in terms of raw damage, rainbow ray compares favorably to scorching ray at mid to high levels. Over the course of 13 levels (from 3rd to 16th), my PCs have typically preferred to deal maximum damage to a single target than to deal ~14 points of damage to 3 targets. Fire resistance 5 or 10 is common among spellcasters, summoned critters and Outsiders, and this minor degree of resistance greatly reduces the efficacy of scorching ray. Even if rainbow ray were fixed at dealing only fire damage, it would be comparable at 12th level, since (4d12 - 10 = 16) is better than (12d6 - 30 = 12)... but it's not so confined.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Will]

-1 to attack rolls is like giving everyone a +1 bonus to AC good against anything (touch attacks, etc) from that one character.

That can make a huge difference... or not, depending on dice. But to do that AND do damage, well. Not bad.

 

[Werebat]

-1 to attack rolls is like giving everyone a +1 bonus to AC good against anything (touch attacks, etc) from that one character.

That can make a huge difference... or not, depending on dice. But to do that AND do damage, well. Not bad.

What people seem to be saying is that the -1 to hit penalty and the variable energy damage make up for the loss of 50% of damage when compared to Scorching Ray. I disagree --because -1 to hit is pretty insignificant from the point where you begin facing things that WILL hit you no matter what your AC is. Also, the variable energy damage will bite you in the butt as often as it helps you out, so it seems like a wash to me. Concentrating all of your firepower into ONE beam can be good or bad, depending on the situation (it's good when you have one enemy with Fire Resistance 5 or 10, it's bad when you have multiple smaller enemies). Split Ray helps Rainbow Beam out more than it does Scorching Ray, sort of -- if you Split a Rainbow Beam it will do the same damage as a Scorching Ray but it will be 2 levels higher. Bleh.

I still say accellerating the damage at low levels is a good idea -- honestly, at 3rd level (when you can first cast the spell), 1d12 vs 4d6 damage is a no-brainer choice considering the few things you will be facing with fire resistance at 3rd level. I agree that by 15th level the spells are pretty balanced (12d6 vs 5d12), I just don't think it should take quite so long to get there.

Have any of you ever actually chosen Rainbow Beam over Scorching Ray when it came to learning new spells or designing villains?

- Ron ^*^

 

[Will]

Higher level spell also means able to pierce spell resistance better.

As for me, no, because I've never seen Rainbow beam. What book is it from?