D&D 5E (2024) Rate D&D 2024

[TheSword]

2014 was somehow unusable because your character might have to make an ability check, but 2024 where the target always gets a saving throw is somehow more "usable"? I mean I guess that makes sense on the "I sometimes feel bad as a DM just auto-killing one of a low level PCs few spells for the day" front, but otherwise this claim does not seem to stand up to much logical scrutiny.

Yes. It was either overpowered or underpowered depending on whether you guessed the spell level right. With no mechanic to work out what level of spell was being cast. It was a game of battleship where the DM can see both sides of the board and gets to decide where his battleships are after the player has chosen a target. I also much prefer the principle that the caster of the original spell’s skill determines whether they can cast through counterspelling.

But hey, evidently you have an edition now that you love so much that even the obvious nerfs are also somehow power upgrades to you. Congratulations. Enjoy it while it lasts.

The reality is I’ll enjoy this edition until a better one comes along for me. Just as I have with every other edition. It isn’t going to disappear any time soon. If we get another 5 years of D&D 2024 - which I strongly suspect we will then I’ll consider myself lucky.

 

[mamba]

It’s really ironic actually. The WFRP 4e system gained a lot of tweaks and adjustments over its release. Adding options, tweaking rules and adding alternatives. Similar to Xanathar’s and Tasha’s et al. The WFRP community has been asking for an updated 4.5 set of rules to bring it all together which is pretty much exactly what we have here. A cautionary tale.

I would not mind a bringing it all together into a new, better organized core book once things are spread out over a handful of books or more, but that is absolutely not what we got.

 

[cbwjm]

With my rating I think how likely am I to recommend it to someone else. Not as opposed to other games but in isolation.

I guess that’s the same principle. If I’m rating a restaurant I don’t mark it down because there’s another restaurant in town that I happen to like as well.

Folks of course can rate however they like. It’s fascinating what people consider to be the base line and how they reach their rating.

That's largely how my rating system works, a simple Terrible, Bad, Alright, Good, Amazing scale based on what is in front of me. If it's good or amazing I'm probably telling others to check it out. Terrible means (in regard to movies) that I didn't finish it.

 

[cbwjm]

Relating it to all the other things you enjoy isn’t disagreement with me. It’s in perfect alignment with what I said.

I don't relate it to all the other things I enjoy, just whether or not I enjoy it at that time. I'm not thinking of other movies I'm thinking of that single movie and whether or not I enjoyed it.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I would not mind a bringing it all together into a new, better organized core book once things are spread out over a handful of books or more, but that is absolutely not what we got.

Yep, 5e was absolutely due for some sort of revised rules compendium from the moment Tasha's hit. I mean suddenly if I wanted my character to have all the core class features they were "entitled" to I was hauling a minimum two books to sessions as a player. And the PHB was full of little things that obviously needed revision in view of years of experience and/or updates in how certain things were approached (like the Magic Initiate feat). Also clearly WotC was hellbent on rejiggering how "race" worked, and while that wasn't particularly a priority for me (at least not once Tasha's just made the ability bonuses floating), I certainly wouldn't have minded if a new combined player options book undertook that as well. Hasbro could have sold it for $60 a pop using overwhelmingly recycled material and I still would have gobbled it up and been happier for it.

Instead we got this thing.

 

[TheSword]

I would not mind a bringing it all together into a new, better organized core book once things are spread out over a handful of books or more, but that is absolutely not what we got.

We were never gonna get a compendium. It doesn’t make sense for new players or from a business perspective. We got upgraded system that took the best from the supplements to date. In such a way that you can largely still use anything they didn’t include. Sounds like a win win. If the changes aren’t to a persons taste they have many options.

 

[Reynard]

I mean we’ve been playing it a lot throughout the playtest - trying things as they were released and switching to the new rules felt really organic. Our main group of longest term players (all 20+ years) see it as overwhelmingly positive.

Things I see as straight upgrades

• Weapon Masteries
• Starter Feats
• Adjustments to spells - like Counterspell and sleep.
• The Bloodied condition
• Change to inspiration
• More use of Proficiency bonus in feats and class abilities. Fixing GWM and SS
• Decoupling stats to race and in general making race more flexible
• Making background more important.
• Changes to illusionist
• Changes to Monk
• Changes to unarmed combat and grapple/moving away from opposed Athletics checks.

Plus a ton of minor quality of life changes to classes like Paladins and Ranger multiclass spells rounding up not down or Barbarian rage being extended as a bonus action or due to a save.

For anyone who is interested, here is a really comprehensive list of changes. Mostly tweaks. If you really think they are all bad or neutral then I’m sorry for you but I guess WotC were never going to please everyone. I’m just lucky that they hit the nail on the head that I was hoping for.

DnD 5e to 2024 DnD Transition Guide and Change Log: Everything That's Different in the New 2024 Player's Handbook

A lot has changed in the DnD 2024 rules. In this horrendously long article, we’ve dug into everything that has changed in the Player's Handbook.

rpgbot.net

That's almost all player facing, which doesn't concern me. I admit, bloodied being back is nice -- except very very few monster designs actually make use of it.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I support everyone's right to an opinion, but some people in this thread seem to be implying that it's ridiculous to consider the new ruleset an improvement over 2014. Folks can stick with 2014 or pick up a different game if they want, but personally I like the new rules and am looking forward to future releases.

Well the downside of it being a group activity is this is a pizza where everyone at the table has to come to a consensus on toppings, and sadly I'm stuck learning and playing a system I didn't want or ask for at some tables, while still needing to remember the nearly the same but different one I actually like for others. Really it's just one system that is now much more messy and complicated, as the knowledge of each version contaminates the other. In other words it's been foisted on me, it's made my gaming life needlessly more complicated for what I consider negligible upside, and I'm going to complain about that at every opportunity for the next several years.

But I don't think it's ridiculous to like it at all, I just can't relate to that position very much, and claims about certain specific changes being massive improvements do read as comical fanboyism to me. But I am glad some people actually like it. I don't want D&D to die, and I don't want to hasten the advent of some completely different edition pushing what tattered remnants there are of the edition I like aside. I don't actually want the fandom to go in the toxic direction of so many other fandoms in recent decades, and in the wake of the OGL debacle that seemed to be the direction, so 2024 boosters are kind of a breath of fresh, positive air.

But once again, it's a positivity I really don't relate to at all.

 

[TheSword]

Well the downside of it being a group activity is this is a pizza where everyone at the table has to come to a consensus on toppings, and sadly I'm stuck learning and playing a system I didn't want or ask for at some tables, while still needing to remember the nearly the same but different one I actually like for others. Really it's just one system that is now much more messy and complicated, as the knowledge of each version contaminates the other. In other words it's been foisted on me, it's made my gaming life needlessly more complicated for what I consider negligible upside, and I'm going to complain about that at every opportunity for the next several years.

But I don't think it's ridiculous to like it at all, I just can't relate to that position very much, and claims about certain specific changes being massive improvements do read as comical fanboyism to me. But I am glad some people actually like it. I don't want D&D to die, and I don't want to hasten the advent of some completely different edition pushing what tattered remnants there are of the edition I like aside. I don't actually want the fandom to go in the toxic direction of so many other fandoms in recent decades, and in the wake of the OGL debacle that seemed to be the direction, so 2024 boosters are kind of a breath of fresh, positive air.

But once again, it's a positivity I really don't relate to at all.

I’m not intending to come across as a fanboy. I spend equally as much time playing WFRP which couldn’t be more different as a game. I just think for what D&D does well, 2024 does it better. They aren’t massive improvements. They’re many many small improvements. IMHO. I probably praise more in counter to the negativity, which can probably be annoying.

I’m sorry that you haven’t had choice about the change. It’s never good to be dragged to something kicking and screaming and no one should have to run a system they don’t want to. Ever likely you’re bouncing if it hard.

Where do you think you are on this?

 

[TheSword]

That's almost all player facing, which doesn't concern me. I admit, bloodied being back is nice -- except very very few monster designs actually make use of it.

I mean player facing stuff absolutely does concern me when I DM because I want players to have fun at my table.

It was a summary of PHB changes though. I like the MM changes I’ve used so far but of course I’ve only used a relatively small selection of them in the 6 months the book has been out. I like what I see though.