Re-opening an old can: Warlocks and Angels

[Rechan]

Well I imagine a Angel would have a very strict view of its ideals. As such, a Warlock could be in for a world of hurt if he even remotely steps outside that, since unlike with a god an Angel you made a pact with be watching you very closely. It be like the old Paladin codes, except you would have a Angel on your ass.

That would have to be spelled out for it, I think.

And in such a way so that the DM exercising it doesn't come off as a rat bastard or a railroader.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

In a roundabout fashion, that's my point: What's the cost of making a pact with an Angel?

If you make a Pact with the Devil, he gets your soul and you go to hell.

What's the cost of making a deal with an Angel? An Angel whose Ideal you agree with significantly enough that he'll make a deal with you? Where is the drawback?

If there is no cost, then that might be the reason why it's not possible to make a Pact with Angels. The cost might be a necessity for the flow of power from the higher being and the character, or something like that.

But then, is there really a "cost" for pacting with feys or the stars?

I think the "can" can only be closed by assuming that the choice the player has in making a pact is not the choice the character has. The character in the game world could only make the pact he took. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have become a Warlock at all, and instead stayed a Commoner / Human Minion - or died a long time ago.
But the player obviously choses the pact for the more interesting powers of that pact, or to roleplay an interesting concept.

 

[Rechan]

I think the "can" can only be closed by assuming that the choice the player has in making a pact is not the choice the character has. The character in the game world could only make the pact he took. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have become a Warlock at all, and instead stayed a Commoner / Human Minion - or died a long time ago.

My issue is more a game-world related one: If a pact with an angel can be chosen without a cost, or without a significant enough cost, then why would anyone NOT chose that? Why aren't people lining up around the block for their Warlock starter kit?

It's the same way you balance something: if there's no reason anyone would NOT take that, then it's Too good.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Hmm... Well, actually you make the comparison with Devil Pact. Well, that was I believe thanks to the old-origins of Tiefling pacts and the workings of Asmodeus. As such it shows there needs to be a starting point a place where burgeoning Warlocks find out and learn about making Pacts. Or the otherworldly being finds the means to start making Pacts.

As such, perhaps this hasn't come about with Angels for various reasons. The gods disallow it and forcefully stop Angels (who knows what secrets the Angels could tell), the Angels have no desire to serve a lesser being, etc.

 

[Rechan]

As such, perhaps this hasn't come about with Angels for various reasons. The gods disallow it and forcefully stop Angels (who knows what secrets the Angels could tell), the Angels have no desire to serve a lesser being, etc.

Well the assumption is that IF one COULD...

Though a good point has been raised: What's the cost of dealing with Fate (Stars)?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

They may choose to alter your destiny when it suits them, your Destiny becomes forfeit and you waver between various fates, as you become more in twinned in manipulating fate you draw closer and faster towards your own, the fates of those around you alter and shift dramatically, etc.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

My issue is more a game-world related one: If a pact with an angel can be chosen without a cost, or without a significant enough cost, then why would anyone NOT chose that? Why aren't people lining up around the block for their Warlock starter kit?

It's the same way you balance something: if there's no reason anyone would NOT take that, then it's Too good.

You can't just make a pact as you want to. You need the opportunity. If you get to play a PC, you - the player - can chose whatever you want. But a person in the game-world (player or non-player character) doesn't get such a choice or an opportunity to pick whatever he likes. (3E) Why does someone become a Commoner if he could have become Expert or even Rogue?

And pacting with an Angel is not without cost. The Angel of Vengeance demands you to perform deeds of vengeance, and still wants you to claim souls for him. (Hey, I was a simple farmer, I can't just kill people because they cheated me of a few silver pieces!).
The Angle of Snuggling demands you to snuggle people - not everyone is into snuggling, and especially not all the time. And hey, why do I have to give the soul of someone that I snuggled!

 

[FireLance]

The notion is that Warlocks get their power right up front. No years of training, it's just handed to them on a platter. That's the allure of making pacts with otherworldly entities; you get what you want RIGHT NOW. "Making a deal with the devil", after all, is all about getting what you want, but you have to pay the price with your soul; there's little responsibility and restriction until the end of the line.

It's sort've like those deals where you can get a TV furniture without making payments for x months, but then you gotta start making them and the payments are hefty. The allure of "get what I want now, because that's all that matters" short-sightedness that is your downfall.

Well then, my guess is that any entity isn't just going to make a pact with anybody. The warlock has to learn the basics of contacting the entity and making a pact that allows him some degree of autonomy. To use your TV furniture example, the warlock first has to get access to a TV and a telephone.

So, I wouldn't say that the warlock gets everything handed to him on a platter. He needs enough training to ensure that what gets handed to him isn't his own head.

 

[Enoch]

The angels need souls to forge their radiant weapons.
The fey need souls to entertain them during their nightly feasts.
The stars (Far Realm?) don't need souls, instead they give you power for no good reason and you slowly become insane.
The devils need souls to fight off the gods and their angels.

 

[hong]

As I see it, warlocks don't make pacts with individual demons, fey or whoever. They make "pacts" with a plane as a whole: it's a source of arcane energy that provides them with superpowers. Thus you wouldn't make a pact with an angel, although it's conceivable that there might be such a thing as an astral pact.