D&D 5E Reach weapons: what's the drawback?

If you're a human variant Fighter you can get 20 str pretty quick and still have the feat.

Yeah, but then you're assuming the optional inclusion of the obviously-more-powerful variant human, on top of the optional inclusion of feat rules. Sure, it might work out well in that one specific situation, but what are the chances?
 

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Minsc

Explorer
Wow, talk about a whole lot of snarky responses to a guy who is excited about playing for the first time in 10 years. LOL.

Just trying to get a hold on the rules.

Edit: seriously though, I do appreciate the help.

I'm trying to flesh out my first character, and I can't decide.
 

Celebrim

Legend
It seems to me, in my admittedly extremely limited experience, that a weapon with Reach is extremely powerful. They keep many enemies at a distance they can't hurt you, and if an enemy without Reach wants to hit you, they provoke an Opportunity Attack.

Is that right?

Realistically, that's probably all right. Weapons with greater reach, all other things being equal, do tend to dominate melee combat. In general, in a system, if an optimized pole arm user beats melee combatants of all other styles head to head, I'm generally not upset with that. Your millage may very here depending on what you like in a system, but that would be an example of acceptable imbalance to me.

So, what's the trade off? Why weren't all armies wielding pole arms? Well, aside from the fact that the spear wielder was the core of most armies, and the sword often the equivalent of a side arm or backup weapon, there are some advantages to a sword:

a) It's very difficult to properly employ a shield if you are using a pole arm. Generally, such techniques are confined to spears and perhaps pikes, which D&D generally models as not having the advantages in damage and flexibility of other pole arms. Without a shield, you are greatly disadvantaged against and vulnerable to missile fire.
b) It's a lot more unwieldy. A pole arm is generally about 7-9' long. This is a lot of weapon to be lugging around all the time and you can't ever really put it away or put it down. A sword can simply be sheathed and hang from your side until needed, freeing your hands to do other stuff. A pole arm is much more encumbering.
c) Similarly, it's significantly disadvantaged in tight quarters. Much of the advantage of a polearm assumes you either have another rank of pole arm wielders behind you, or else you have room to back up. If you don't have room to back up in, you can't easily maximize your advantage. If your pole arm is meant to be swung and you don't have room to swing, that can be a problem. If your enemy is pressed up to you chest to chest, the time to start thinking about dropping the pole arm and going for another weapon was a couple seconds ago. In ancient combat, this was typically a problem in mass combats where lines became crushed together. In D&D you add to that problem the fact you are fighting in caves or small rooms and similarly cramped areas.

I wouldn't be too surprised if 5e D&D models this to one extent or another. Typically, D&D has loosely modeled this. Polearms have always been quite powerful if properly used.
 

guachi

Hero
or people who play with tactics and have a front row fighter in the party with the pole arm fighter in the rear so both fighters can attack in confined places like a dungeon or really anywhere you fight in formation. Like we've been doing for 34 years.

but hey, keep viewing the game through dpr glasses if you want

Heck, my rogue has a whip (he has 2 levels of Ranger so he is proficient in all martial weapons) just for these situations. Happened last session as the two barbarians in front took up the 10 foot wide passage.
 



Mirtek

Hero
Yeah, but then you're assuming the optional inclusion of the obviously-more-powerful variant human, on top of the optional inclusion of feat rules. Sure, it might work out well in that one specific situation, but what are the chances?
I am going on a limp here and say pretty good. I bet that the majority of groups uses at least anything from PHB, including feats. While they are theoretically only optional, I say they are practically standard for most groups. And I also say they are being seen as practically standard by WotC, as in them being the "optional" rule that will be most supported in all new "splatbooks". I'd be very surprised if the Elemental Evil Player's Book would not have new feats.
 

Blackbrrd

First Post
As you don't get extra attacks just from picking up a pole arm, but need the Polearm Master feat, I think the most obvious reason is that you want to pick up some other feat, or stat gain. (If you don't use feats, you only get the reach, so you can fight from the back ranks. Quite situation dependant if that is a good benefit vs the higher damage of a normal two-handed weapon or the higher AC of a weapon and shield wielding character.)

Personally, I don't think there is anything obvious about going/not going for pole arms, it would really depend on the character you would want to play. For instance, in cities, you can probably get away carrying a sword, but a 7-9' pole arm might get people looking at you. If you want to play the scary scarred guy carrying around an oversized axe, that might just be a plus. :D
 

Nebulous

Legend
Well, I think that the abstract nature of combat in D&D makes the "historical" uses of most weapons obsolete. The distinct advantages and disadvantages of size, weight and requisite training get glossed over in favor of ease of play. Is there a reason why getting hit in the head with a mace for 1d8 is less then getting speared in the gut with a longsword for 1d10? Not really. Both should probably kill you instantly.

The purpose of using pole weapons is either to extend reach or to increase angular momentum—and thus striking power—when the weapon is swung. Because they contain relatively little metal, polearms are cheap to make. This has made them the favored weapon of peasant levies and peasants in rebellion the world over. Many are adapted from farm implements, or other tools.
Polearms were common weapons on medieval European battlefields. Their range and impact force made them effective weapons against armored warriors on horseback, because they could penetrate armor.


None of the above translates particularly well into your average D&D session of heroic combat.
 
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Scorpio616

First Post
Re: Polearm Master

Once you use your reaction, you lose all 'stickyness', meaning foes can attack you and then move back away from you letting in more foes to strike you. Since this edition is much more conductive to PC having to face larger amounts of foes that still slightly matter than previous editions, having the threat of a OA can be more valuable than the OA itself for foes with some self preservation left.

Also if the DM Rules that such "OA triggering special abilities" are readily visible to foes, the feat becomes a Shoot Me sign.
 

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