D&D (2024) Rebalancing melee weapons for 5.5E

[TaranTheWanderer]

So, after looking at the weapons and trying to stat out the phb weapons, a dagger should be a martial and not a simple weapon. (Martial starts at 1d10, simple starts at 1d8) dagger has 3 riders on it which doesn’t work for a simple weapon because it drops damage below 1d4.

If you made it martial(dagger: 1d4, small, thrown, finesse) and then created:

• throwing knife (1d4, thrown, small)
• knife (1d4, small, finesse)

As simple weapons

The whole formula works better.

 

[Horwath]

So, after looking at the weapons and trying to stat out the phb weapons, a dagger should be a martial and not a simple weapon. (Martial starts at 1d10, simple starts at 1d8) dagger has 3 riders on it which doesn’t work for a simple weapon because it drops damage below 1d4.

If you made it martial(dagger: 1d4, small, thrown, finesse) and then created:

• throwing knife (1d4, thrown, small)
• knife (1d4, small, finesse)

As simple weapons

The whole formula works better.

that is why I removed the Thrown property from dagger and made throwing knife with d3 damage and finesse, light and thrown propertied.

 

[Yaarel]

Regarding versatile, is it actually worth much? I think it is pretty much useless. People either use versatile weapon one-handed with a shield, or they choose a proper two-handed weapon.

Yeah, the 2014 Versatile property is worthless.

It is better to just treat versatile as the same thing as twohanded, but optionally usuable onehanded. Compare the claymore sword. It is primarily for twohanded use, even if one can wield it effectively onehanded.

For D&D, both twohanded and versatile should deal the same damage, bumping the base damage die upward two sizes.

Then versatile becomes a worthwhile choice, whether to use the versatile weapon onehanded with shield or with freehand for casting or grapple, or to use the weapon twohanded for more damage. It becomes worthwhile to alternate.

Note, that several twohanded weapons also have the heavy property, to nudge the damage die up one size.

For example:
Longsword 1d8 slash: versatile (1d12)
Greatsword 2d6 slash: twohanded, heavy

Then the difference between 1d12 (average 6.5) and 2d6 (average 7) is close enough that both weapons are good choices, even if the longsword is primarily wielded twohanded.

that is why I removed the Thrown property from dagger and made throwing knife with d3 damage and finesse, light and thrown propertied.

So the die sizes are?

1 › d3 › d4 › d6 › d8 › d10 › d12 › 2d6

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

that is why I removed the Thrown property from dagger and made throwing knife with d3 damage and finesse, light and thrown propertied.

Yeah. I’m fine with D3s but some people were not liking that. Was trying to find a different way of keeping d4s.

 

[Horwath]

So the die sizes are?

1 › d3 › d4 › d6 › d8 › d10 › d12 › 2d6

d3 › d4 › d6 › d8 › d10 › d12 › 2d6 > 2d8

 

[Yaarel]

d3 › d4 › d6 › d8 › d10 › d12 › 2d6 > 2d8

I now notice, you made the greatsword deal 2d8 damage. That seems too much, unless it has the "loading" property sotospeak, where only one attack per round is possible.

I would reserve the theoretical 2d8 damage for huge stationary weapons, like a harpoon bolted to a ship deck.

 

[Horwath]

I now notice, you made the greatsword deal 2d8 damage. That seems too much, unless it has the "loading" property sotospeak, where only one attack per round is possible.

I would reserve the theoretical 2d8 damage for huge stationary weapons, like a harpoon bolted to a ship deck.

one handed and two handed melee weapons both have +STR mod to damage.
2Handed should have 1+1/2 str mod to damage, and since that is not 5E design, 2d8 compensates for that.

 

[Yaarel]

one handed and two handed melee weapons both have +STR mod to damage.
2Handed should have 1+1/2 str mod to damage, and since that is not 5E design, 2d8 compensates for that.

Yet in 5e, fighting with two weapons is suboptimal compared to fighting with a twohanded weapon.

In comparison, the twohanded weapon is already too good as-is.

 

[Horwath]

Yet in 5e, fighting with two weapons is suboptimal compared to fighting with a twohanded weapon.

In comparison, the twohanded weapon is already too good as-is.

1. TWF is garbage. It's the worst style in 5E. Then again, it's the worst style IRL to use, so... realism I guess.
2. 2,5 damage on average(d8 vs 2d6) is not worth -2 AC
3. Shield is also an extra magic item slot.
4. monsters are bags of HPs so buffing STR weapons is no problem
5. remove -5/+10 part of those 2 feats if that is the problem.

 

[Clint_L]

I think weapons could be simplified in general, but my only strong desire is for "reach" to be given an equalizing disadvantage, like disadvantage against adjacent targets. I really, really hate combinations like bugbear+polearm master. They are cheezy and make no sense.