D&D General Rebuilding a new monk (+)

[CreamCloud0]

I am a little iffy on the boxer/brawler archetype. While it seems like it should fit with the monk class, It seems like the monk wants to "pop the top off" of what a normal human can achieve physically, while a Boxer/Brawler wants to be down to earth. a "low magic" monk without the arrow catching. And the more fantastic abilities we put in the Monk, the harder that Boxer/Brawler archetype is to fit.

I would probably say it would be easier to make an unarmed subclass in Barbarian instead for the boxer/brawler. Rage makes a pretty decent substitute for all of the fancy "ki" tricks that don't fit with a brawler. You just need to teach the barbarian how to punch.

I don’t necessarily see why the boxer archetype couldn’t ‘pop the top off’ i can see it taking the power position of the three subclasses with martial artist being more defensive/disabler and priest being the ‘magic’ subclass, the brawler leaning more into mega knockout punches or potentially dirty streetfighting tricks

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A side note: I’ve always liked playing monks, even with their flaws. My favorite incarnation popped up in 3.5Ed, especially as the class accreted PrCls, feats and other mechanics that added variety, flavor, utility, and efficacy. From WotC and 3PPs.

When 4Ed came around, I liked their take on it too, but not as much as the immediately prior edition’s. But one thing I definitely liked was linking Ki abilities to Psionics. I really dug that- it resonated with the way 3.5Ed handled the Psychic Warrior. It made sense to me on a visceral level that Ki was just another name for psionics. Were I running a campaign today, that’s one thing I’d definitely keep, regardless of edition.

 

[kapars]

I think an important question to answer is what is the role of the Monk outside combat? What history or genre fiction do we draw from there? Are they doctors, acolytes, scribes? Does martial arts training take all of their time?

 

[Raduin711]

I don’t necessarily see why the boxer archetype couldn’t ‘pop the top off’ i can see it taking the power position of the three subclasses with martial artist being more defensive/disabler and priest being the ‘magic’ subclass, the brawler leaning more into mega knockout punches or potentially dirty streetfighting tricks

I guess what I mean is by "pop the top off" is that the Monk tends to lean towards superhuman feats that we might see in wuxia films, running on walls, on water, slow fall, immunity to poison and mind control, etc. and saying it was all done with just "mind over matter." One of the (many) primary ability scores is Wisdom, which suggests that many of the monks abilities come from mental balance, spirituality, meditation, etc. I think all that is a lot of baggage for a brawler archetype to shrug off if they are going to share the same class.

It seems like it would be easier to have the barbarian take on the brawler, because it's a magic free, gritty kind of class with unarmored/low armor options and extra movement... and nothing says "rage" like someone who learned how to fight by going to late night beverage establishments and starting fights with the clientele.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I once had a house-ruled version of Rage (since I really dislike resources management on classes abilities) where you built-up power when you 1) Hit something, 2) Get damaged. Like a kind of inverted Exhaustion track, if you will.

It could be a good way of doing it.

 

[Rogerd1]

For a monk, you want a base non-magical class as someone has stated. They should have martial arts, be fast, fairly strong - in some ways fighter strong. Case in point I did a Heroes Unlimited freeform game, but I made a distinction in different strength types. So although the Ancient Master and SpecOps both had Olympic levels of strength, they were geared differently.

Archetypes are essentially different traditions, such as Way of Open Hand, or Way of Serenity. Again they have no real magic, but abilities akin to those from Gurps Martial Arts.

Heroic: This level should have magic, whether they are Iron Fist, or some force wielding mystic type, or elemental magic.

 

[Mind of tempest]

fundamentally I want to separate the martial arts from the subclasses so we no longer have lazy subclasses like a more developed version of the pseudo two different specs of warlocks.

so you can select both a martial arts fighting style and the mystical stuff as well for a far more customisation-able character.

 

[Rogerd1]

fundamentally I want to separate the martial arts from the subclasses so we no longer have lazy subclasses like a more developed version of the pseudo two different specs of warlocks.

so you can select both a martial arts fighting style and the mystical stuff as well for a far more customisation-able character.

Exactly, I mentioned something like this in what is wrong with 5e.

So one monk might use something akin to tiger claw kung fu, while another might be adept in weapons.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Exactly, I mentioned something like this in what is wrong with 5e.

So one monk might use something akin to tiger claw kung fu, while another might be adept in weapons.

but they might still be both way of the shadow monks.

 

[Rogerd1]

but they might still be both way of the shadow monks.

Exactly, like I said upthread, Archetypes are the various traditions.