D&D General Rebuilding a new monk (+)

[Argyle King]

I think the first step is to determine what aspects of the monk constitute a class and compare/contrast that with which aspects can be components, features, feats, or subclass options available to other classes.

I could possibly see "Monk" as a class being built similarly to Warlock. Instead of patron and pact boon, you could have styles and stances. Even though he's more of a druid in D&D terms, Naturalist from Sentinels of the Multiverse (card game) could serve as some inspiration for how things might work. That's likely too fiddly for 5E though.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

To me, the Monk class is the person who channels magic through themselves to achieve feats of spiritual prowess.
They may do this through martial arts, religion, meditation, or other forms of spiritual growth.

Purely Martial Arts is the domain of the Fighter: Striking people armed or unarmed, throwing them around etc through skill and physical prowess is what they do. Monks have always been based around the rather outdated exoticism and glorified view of martial arts as something that gives magical powers, so lean into that and separate it out.

In Book of 9 Swords terms, Monks are the swordsages, whereas fighters are the warblades. The weirder wuxia abilities like running over water, short bursts of flight, and punching people from 10 yards away are precisely what the Monk class is for.

 

[Yaarel]

To me, the Monk class is the person who channels magic through themselves to achieve feats of spiritual prowess.
They may do this through martial arts, religion, meditation, or other forms of spiritual growth.

Purely Martial Arts is the domain of the Fighter: Striking people armed or unarmed, throwing them around etc through skill and physical prowess is what they do. Monks have always been based around the rather outdated exoticism and glorified view of martial arts as something that gives magical powers, so lean into that and separate it out.

In Book of 9 Swords terms, Monks are the swordsages, whereas fighters are the warblades. The weirder wuxia abilities like running over water, short bursts of flight, and punching people from 10 yards away are precisely what the Monk class is for.

Are you ok with a base class that is strictly martial, but with a Monk subclass archetype that is magic?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Are you ok with a base class that is strictly martial, but with a Monk subclass archetype that is magic?

How would this base class differ in concept to a Fighter?

 

[Yaarel]

How would this base class differ in concept to a Fighter?

The base class would also take over the Fighter concepts that emphasize mobility and mixed-martial arts.

 

[Yaarel]

Judging by the current results of the OP poll, a new Monk build from the ground up would look something like:

Any poll option that enjoys a popularity of 63% or more should probably be part of the base class.

BASE CLASS = DECISIVELY POPULAR (63%+)
Unarmored defense (86.7%)
Martial arts / martial artist (83.3% / 80.0%)
Improved speed (83.3%)
Improved mobility, jump, run up walls over water, etc. (76.7%)
Ki, non-magic (76.7%)
Ki, supernatural magic (73.3%)
Skirmisher (66.7%)
Monk weapons usable with martial arts (66.7%)

SUBCLASS ARCHETYPES = POPULAR (40%+)
Disabler, imposing conditions (60%)
Improved Saves (53.3%)
Stances (43.3%)
Martial Maneuvers (43.3%)
DPS, high damage dealing (40.0%)
Resistances and immunities (40.0%)
Spiritual Monk / Priest (40.0%)

NON-DEFAULT OPTIONS = PROMINENT MINORITY (25%+)
Stealth (36.7%)
Brawler / Boxer (33.3%)
Armor (26.7%)

NOTE POLL OPTIONS WITH LESS SUPPORT (LESS THAN 25%)
Tank / defense (23.3%)
Non-Monk martial weapons (16.7%)
Straight-up magic (16.7%)
Other, please comment / something else (10% / 6.7%)



Based on this information the BASE CLASS can feature: unarmored defense, speed, extraordinary mobility stunts, extraordinary ki features, hit-and-run skirmishing, and an assortment of weapons suitable for martial arts.

Note, there is a similar amount of support for nonmagical ki (76.7%) and quasi-magical ki (73.3%). Probably the base class has ki as a mechanic, but the subclass archetype might use ki in other nonmagical ways or magical ways. I view the quasi-magic as definitely "magic" but a natural kind of magic that is definitely not "spells".

Regarding the subclasses. Stances and-or maneuvers can be a mechanic for a certain subclass. Imposing conditions or specializing in dealing high damage, are probably different subclasses. A super-tough subclass can feature heightened defenses including saves, resistances, and immunities. At least one subclass archetype has the flavor of a spiritual path.

The non-default options are good to make available, but make them easy to avoid. For example, compare the Fighter Fighting Style feature that allows various options but none of them are default. Optional features might be part of the base class or part of a particular subclass depending on theme. Non-default options include: stealth, brawler/boxer (and I assume wrestler), and wearing armor. Presumably armor swaps out the extraordinary mobility stunts, in exchange for heightened AC, and might be an option for the super-tough subclass that also has heightened saves, resistances, and immunities. Being super-tough is kinda tanky, even tho tank itself with high hit points enjoys less support.

 

[CreamCloud0]

SUBCLASS ARCHETYPES = POPULAR (40%+)
Disabler, imposing conditions (60%)
Improved Saves (53.3%)
Stances (43.3%)
Martial Maneuvers (43.3%)
DPS, high damage dealing (40%)
Resistances and immunities (40%)

Monks as Priests/Spiritual also had a 40% vote ratio

 

[Yaarel]

Monks as Priests/Spiritual also had a 40% vote ratio

I accidentally omitted that, I will update the above post to include it.

The priestly spiritual Monk deserves a flavorful subclass archetype.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Honestly I’m a bit surprised defensive/tank monk isn’t a higher voted for concept here, blocks and parrys, dodges and deflecting arrows, rolling with the punches and the patient defence ability are all monk type things in my mind, maybe it was just how I phrased it on the poll that people thought I meant something else?

 

[Yaarel]

Honestly I’m a bit surprised defensive/tank monk isn’t a higher voted for concept here, blocks and parrys, dodges and deflecting arrows, rolling with the punches and the patient defence ability are all monk type things in my mind, maybe it was just how I phrased it on the poll that people thought I meant something else?

I interpreted the poll results to mean something like:

Saves, resistance, immunity for a subclass!

Armor is a maybe.

But tank in the sense of more hit points, not so much.

Maybe a tough subclass can get away with temporary hit points?