D&D General Rebuilding a new monk (+)

[CreamCloud0]

I interpreted the poll results to mean something like:

Saves, resistance, immunity for a subclass!

Armor is a maybe.

But tank in the sense of more hit points, not so much.

Maybe a tough subclass can get away with temporary hit points?

Yeah it wasn’t such a ‘i have a mountain of HP to burn through’ i was trying to imply so much as ‘I am good at protecting myself and keeping the HP i do have’ damage mitigation and reduction types of ideas.

 

[Yaarel]

Yeah it wasn’t such a ‘i have a mountain of HP to burn through’ i was trying to imply so much as ‘I am good at protecting myself and keeping the HP i do have’ damage mitigation and reduction types of ideas.

The tank (23.3%) is pretty close to the 25% threshold. I think you can get away with flirting with it.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The tank (23.3%) is pretty close to the 25% threshold. I think you can get away with flirting with it.

Sure sure, I’m just curious how different it’s score would be if I had thought of and used the right phrasing when I wrote the poll

 

[Yaarel]

Sure sure, I’m just curious how different it’s score would be if I had thought of and used the right phrasing when I wrote the poll

I figure the questions you do ask are pretty good.

And the results describe a useful visualization of what the Monk should be able to do.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Looking at the summary @Yaarel did, let's examine what we already have in the monk in 5E.

Now, I am going with (somewhat) what I think these options represent. BLUE = already present, RED = not there (or not there yet...).

It looks like the monk is already fairly what most people (here at least) seem to be looking for. The biggest issues and easiest fixes so far seem to be increase martial arts damage and give a bit more ki points since ki competes too much for everything monks do that is "cool".

Monk weapons usable with martial arts (66.7%)
Stances (43.3%)
Martial Maneuvers (43.3%)

I think these three aren't present because in many ways they might be too fiddly for 5E's design. However, I think adding maneuvers a la Battle Master would allow much of those three options.

BASE CLASS = DECISIVELY POPULAR (63%+)
Unarmored defense (86.7%)
Martial arts / martial artist (83.3% / 80.0%)
Improved speed (83.3%)
Improved mobility, jump, run up walls over water, etc. (76.7%)
Ki, non-magic (76.7%)
Ki, supernatural magic (73.3%)
Skirmisher (66.7%)
Monk weapons usable with martial arts (66.7%)

SUBCLASS ARCHETYPES = POPULAR (40%+)
Disabler, imposing conditions (60%)
Improved Saves (53.3%)
Stances (43.3%)
Martial Maneuvers (43.3%)
DPS, high damage dealing (40.0%)
Resistances and immunities (40.0%)
Spiritual Monk / Priest (40.0%)

NON-DEFAULT OPTIONS = PROMINENT MINORITY (25%+)
Stealth (36.7%)
Brawler / Boxer (33.3%)
Armor (26.7%)

NOTE POLL OPTIONS WITH LESS SUPPORT (LESS THAN 25%)
Tank / defense (23.3%)
Non-Monk martial weapons (16.7%)
Straight-up magic (16.7%)
Other, please comment / something else (10%) (6.7%)

 

[Yaarel]

@DND_Reborn

If I understand you correctly, you recommend one Monk subclass uses Martial Maneuvers (namely Superiority Dice like Battle Master). Then this subclass uses the Superiority Dice for effects relating to stances and weapons.

Also. Because the base class ki points are scarce, if a subclass has features that use ki points, the subclass needs to add ki points, in order to use these features, without taking away from the base usage.

 

[CreamCloud0]

@DND_Reborn

If I understand you correctly, you recommend one Monk subclass uses Martial Maneuvers (namely Superiority Dice like Battle Master). Then this subclass uses the Superiority Dice for effects relating to stances and weapons.

Also. Because the base class ki points are scarce, if a subclass has features that use ki points, the subclass needs to add ki points, in order to use these features, without taking away from the base usage.

Yeah having just reviewed the BM martial manoeuvres alot (but not all) of them seem like things a monk should be able to do, replace the superiority die requirement with a single ki point if not just being something they can do (maybe limit it to one a turn barring specific exceptions)
Ki capacity really just needs to be bumped up anyway

 

[Yaarel]

Yeah having just reviewed the BM martial manoeuvres alot (but not all) of them seem like things a monk should be able to do, replace the superiority die requirement with a single ki point if not just being something they can do (maybe limit it to one a turn barring specific exceptions)
Ki capacity really just needs to be bumped up anyway

In discussions about the Psion, using a per-short-rest Warlock chassis works well. A smooth progression that roughly approximates the Warlock spell slots is: Level +1 spell points.

For the Monk, this means 2 ki points at level 1, all the way to 21 ki points at level 20.

Importantly, 1 point equates to the effect of a slot-1 spell, 3 points equates the effect of a slot-3 spell (!), etcetera. Using ki points as equivalent to spell points with these kinds of costs is very powerful, so balancing it requires caution.

However, one cant spend more points than HALF the total points. For example, at level 9, one has 10 ki points to spend, but can only spend a maximum of 5 ki points at any one time.

The Warlock class is a great mechanical chassis for short-rest refreshes.

 

[kapars]

One thing I would enjoy is if the class would allow you to use Ki for extra uses of innate abilities. So a Dragonborn could spend Ki to use their breath weapon attack an additional time per day . This would come with the assumption that the Ki pool is larger.

 

[Minigiant]

Personally I think the base and ki abilities of the monk be strengthened but lower the total ki.

In fantasy, the monk typically has things they can spam and things they can only do a few times. The 5e monk feels off because it's regular moves drain a resource.

Flurry of Blows, 3 Piece Combo, Triple Dagger Throw, Fire Punch, and Ki Blast should be every turn.

Quivering Palm, High Jump Kick, Kunai Barrage, Red Dragon Uppercut, and Ki Explosion should once per short rest.