D&D General Rebuilding a new monk (+)

[CreamCloud0]

It doesn't make sense to me. It's just the way my brain works: I regard martial arts as just another style of fighting. Fencing, archery, boxing--they all take years of training and discipline to master. (shrug)

And yes, absolutely, rangers and paladins should also be subclasses of Fighter...barbarians too, now that you mention it. But that's a whole other thread.

I think looking at alot of the stuff fighter gets it might be better off redefined as the ‘knight’, y’know, all that heavy armour and martial weapons then the fighting styles are just different types of knights: cavaliers with mounted combat, bowmen with archery style...

Edit: I don’t think that you couldn’t throw all the martial classes into a single big bag but whatever comes out isn’t going to be anything close to as satisfying mechanically or thematically tight as having multiple classes to focus in on specifics, i saw the point made in another thread I forgot which, that said reducing things too far for ‘simplicity’ will eventually only start making things more complicated again, plus if it’s done with martials then why aren’t all the wizard cleric druid sorcerer warlock one big ‘magic class’ which I don’t think could ever be done without being hideously unbalanced one way or another

But yes, that’s a different thread

 

[Yaarel]

I voted "Monks as [Other]," because I want the Monk to be a subclass of Fighter. It never sat right with me that it was its own separate class...even back in 3E, I wanted it to be a prestige class of Fighter.

Rather than Monk absorb into the undifferentiated Fighter "proto class", I would rather the Fighter class itself evolve into two separate classes: a heavy infantry Knight and a light infantry Skirmisher.

The Monk can merge with the Skirmisher but less so a Knight.

 

[Yaarel]

I view ki as an aspect of the psionic power source.

Specifically, ki is the bodily aura of mindful influence. It pervades the body and extends outward. It can reshape the body, exert force, manifest other marvels.

The ki is both natural and responsive to ones mental intentions. It is an aspect of oneself.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Rather than Monk absorb into the undifferentiated Fighter "proto class", I would rather the Fighter class itself evolve into two separate classes: a heavy infantry Knight and a light infantry Skirmisher.

The Monk can merge with the Skirmisher but less so a Knight.

However many martial classes go into the mixing pot i think at least one more needs to actually come back out of it for all the concepts to be done proper justice.

 

[Yaarel]

However many martial classes go into the mixing pot i think at least one more needs to actually come back out of it for all the concepts to be done proper justice.

Are you saying at least three saliently different base classes, that together can reasonably represent the features of all of the D&D traditions?

What would these three classes look like?

 

[James Gasik]

I can see two, but three?

Lightly Armored Warrior- highly mobile skirmisher/ranged attacker. Increased movement speed, bonus action disengage. Martial artists probably fit here.

Armored Warrior- sacrifices mobility for increased defense and battlefield presence (stickiness).

 

[Yaarel]

For me something like.

Knight: Strength and Constitution

Skirmisher: Strength and Athletics (including agile Strength for Acrobatics and dodging AC substituting Dex)

Rogue: Dexterity and Perception.

Of course, the subclasses bring other features to the base class.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Are you saying at least three saliently different base classes, that together can reasonably represent the features of all of the D&D traditions?

What would these three classes look like?

No I’m saying that if you scrap fighter and monk then you want at least three, if not more, classes to be built from their concepts otherwise you haven’t actually gained any design space you’ve just mixed up what you were already working with

 

[Yaarel]

No I’m saying that if you scrap fighter and monk then you want at least three, if not more, classes to be built from their concepts otherwise you haven’t actually gained any design space you’ve just mixed up what you were already working with

It consolidates design space.

Knight (Cavalier, Eldritch Knight, Paladin, etc)

Skimisher (Monk, Athlete, Ranger, etcetera)

I am unclear what a third base class might look like.

 

[CreamCloud0]

It consolidates design space.

Knight (Cavalier, Eldritch Knight, Paladin, etc)

Skimisher (Monk, Athlete, Ranger, etcetera)

I am unclear what a third base class might look like.

Trying to consolidate too much design space is just going to make the execution of each concept unfocused and messy, look at the current fighter now: one of the most common points made against it is that it’s expected to hold up too many concepts and thus does none of them really well

Base classes imo could be

-bulky knight (high damage, high armour/damage reduction, but not very mobile and lacks good ranged options

-mobile skirmisher (very mobile, good all-rounder but doesn’t naturally excel in any one area)

-ranged interference (picks off enemies from a distance and inflicts negative conditions, but frail and lacks good close range options)

-martial support (decent defence, low damage themselves but provides buffs and support to other allies to compensate)