Regional weapon prof. ?

[gpetruc]

Some ideas on Weapon Proficiencies and regions:

If we look at the list of exotic weapons we can find out that some of them are almost ordinary weapons, that simply require more training to use (Bastard sword, Dwarven waraxe, Spiked chain) and are exotic expecially for game balance reasons, while others are strange weapons, typical of a race (Orc doubleaxe, Urgrosh, Hammer-Pick) or culture (the oriental weapons).
Also, while the weapons of the first kind are used often (almost every one-handed sword weilding fighter has a bastard sword, and lots of dwarves have the dw. waraxe) the others are almost never used (who will blow out a feat for an Urgrosh or a Hammer pick)

Now, lets explain my idea: in FR there are Regional skills and feats; why not have regional (and/or racial) weapon proficencies ? Elves are already proficient with swords and bows, why not the other races ?
For example we could say that for gnomes the Hammer-pick is considered a martial weapon (instead of an exotic one), that for dwarves coming from a particular clan the Urgrosh is a martial weapon and that for the other dwarves the battleaxe is considered a simple weapon.
In a human region covered by woods, where crossbows are rare and bows are common a shortbow might be a simple weapon and not a martial one (and the heavy crossbow a martial or exotic one). Or that in a technically advanced country where the crossbows are common the repeating crossbow and the double crossbow (described in my previous post) are martial and not exotic (so that fighters can use crossbows).
Maybe in a military organized country most of the people are conscripted in a military service and they all learn to use long spears or ranseurs.

I am now creating a campaign world and I want to have each region have different features also in game terms (like in FR) and I'm planning about adding regional weapon proficiencies. Obviously I'll have to mantain balance and so if a region gets free weapon proficiencies another one might have other bonuses (for example bonuses to skills).

When I'll have more ideas I'll post again, but I would like to know if someone tried something similar in his campaign or if someone has some suggestions about this.

-------------------
Giovanni

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Salutations,

I like the idea- a lot.

Though, instead of restricting it to race- how about limiting to people who grew up in said region. A human child that grew up in a dwarven area would have the Urgosh as a martial weapon.

Yes, I could see that leading to power-gaming, but the player choice also brings on rp to their character ( a human use to dwarven ways not trying to adjust to being around other humans ).

*shrug*

Just an idea.

I look forward to seeing further ideas from you on the matter.

FD

 

[Ace32]

Maybe you should have the cultural weapon prof feats take some of the martial weapons and swap them with whichever exotic weapons you want, ie, stuff that a character from whichever culture wouldn't use, thus making those weapons count as exotic for that character.

*edit* Forgot to mention, that this kind of cultural 'feat' should be a free one given to all characters. */edit*

 

[Crothian]

I like the idea a lot. To balance it out, you might want to remove the class abilities of "Know all Martial weapons". I've never liked. It seems odd that you would train in all these weapons that your character would never use.

Yes, it could be abused, but you know your group the best. Many groups I know just don't abuse the rules. It does add to the role playing aspect especially as the PCs travel and notice the selections of weapons change from place to place instead of everyone using the same old wepaons.

 

[Khaalis]

I agree with this. As you state with Elves ... Why do elves have crossbows as Simple weapons? They dont make them and they dont use them.

A good way to do this, though it is a lot of work, is to simply re-write the lists of available weapons for each Region.

For example you could have a low-tech region (like most of the Dales in FR) where they only have access to pretty simple and common style weapons.

Typical Simple Weapons:

Dagger, Light Mace, Sickle, Club, Halfspear, Quarterstaff, Sling, and Javelin.


Typical Martial Weapons:

Light Hammer, Handaxe, Light Pick, Light Flail (Grain Flail), Trident (Pitchfork), Scythe, Short Sword, Shortbow, Warhammer (Sledge)

Maybe even add Net as a Martial weapon (fishing nets).

For this region - anything else is exotic.


For example: Not everyone would have seen a Punching Dagger (Katar) or have the level of weaponcraft to forge Heavy Maces or build Crossbows.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[Ravellion]

If you want to do this, I would stay within the framework of the rules and give away proficiencies, as well as taking them away. I wouldn't actually change the classes of the weapons on a region-per-region basis.

just my 2 cp.

Rav

 

[Myst Runner]

personally i think that this would be a good idea. i was thinking of doing something simmilar to a race that a friend and i created together. i was hoping to give them a proficancy in staffed weapons (quarter stave, scythes, spears, pikes...)

 

[Felnar]

Why do elves have crossbows as Simple weapons? They dont make them and they dont use them.

a crossbow is a simple weapon because it is incredibly simple to operate

currently, exotic weapons aren't balanced with each other. some are exotic because they have mechanical advantages, some are exotic because they are "foreign"

here's how it should be (me thinks), categories based on training required:
simple weapons are weapons that are easy to become competent with
martial weapons are weapons that take more training to become competent with
exotic weapons are weapons that take extended/specific training to become competent with

ie. a fighter shouldnt have to blow a feat to use a sai or siagham, because they're non-complex in use

the Unearthed Arcana Weapon Group rules address a lot of your concerns

gotta go,

 

[Nyaricus]

hello everyone,

gpetruc, i am actually implimenting the same ideas you speak of in both my FRCS game , and also in my own campaign world, both of which i DM. I'll give you a run-down of how its works.

First off, as Felnar said, Unearthed Arcana has soem good ideas for Weapon Group Profs, but i have a few varient rules (that i believe to be well balanced, but feedback is welcome) that i use, etc. but heres an overveiw.

Weapon Group Profs: Basic Weapons, Axes, Bows, Clubs and Maces, Crossbows, Entangling Weapons (whips, bolas, nets, scourges, etc), Flails and Chains, Hammers, Heavy Blades, Light Blades, Monk Weapons, Picks, Polearms, Punching and Shields, Spears and Throwing Spears. This is a basic outline, and i can flesh it out, if you want (meaning get into specific weapons, as i have changed some from the UA book).

For the number of profs each class gets, i go by a simple system
Good BAB classes all get Basic Weapons and any other 3 Weapon Groups (except Fighters, they get 4)
Average BAB classes all get Basic Weapons and any other 2
Poor BAB classes get Basic Weapons adn any other 1
Also, any character may start out with Exotic Weapon Profs, but that is described later.

For multclassing, take their base number of profs (other than basic weapons) and subtract one from it. that is how many bonus profs you gain from multiclassing. This number lowers by one for every level you take in a different class. For Example, a human barbarian (Basic Weapons and any other three) wants to learn some more formal fighting techniques, and takes a level or two in fighter. He gains 3 more profs, and may choose them as he wishes. Then, he becomes entranced by the skills of a bard, and decides to take a few levels in Bard. now, if this were his second class, he would gain 1 bonus prof (2 basic, minus one for being dual-classed), but since it is his third, he gains none (the two normal, -1 for being dual-classed, -1 for being multi-classed) As a house rule (not directly related to this, but relevant) i only allow my players to have a max of 3 Base Classes, and 2 Prestigue Classes. the XP penalty fo the multi-classing genreally discourages it anyways, but you dont gain any further benefits with Weapon Profs either. Update: PrC usually dont give any bonus profs. if they do, it should be no more than two, no matter what their BAB.

Also, the Exotic Weapon Prof is still in use, but is only used for weapons that require special training to use. You MAY take this feat with your normal class profs (meaing a fighter could take Axes, Bows, Heavy Blades and Exotic Heavy Blades at first level). For Example: say you have a character that wants to use a Dwarven Urgrosh. The two main "weapon parts" for this double weapon are an axe-head and a spear-head. Thus this character must have prof. in both Spear Group weapons and Axe Group weapons. when this character takes the Exotic Weapon Prof, he must choose either the Spears or the Axes to be affected by it (meaning, he takes either "Exotic Axes" prof., or
"Exotic Spears" prof) then, once he has chosen either Axes or Spears, he gains prof in all Exotic Spears (if he chose Spears) or Axes (if he chose Axes). Either way, he now has met the requirements to use the Urgrosh (so, in other terms > Axes Prof + Spear Prof + EITHER Exotic Spears or Exotix Axes = Ability to use the Urgrosh as a double weapon).

In regards to Weapon Focus, you chose a group of weapons, and gain all the benifits to all the weapons in that group. If you can hit esp. well with a greatsword, a longsword is not that far off. In regards to double weapons that have two different weapons (like the Urgrosh) you must take Weapon Focus with each applicable weapon group (with the Urgrosh, you must take Weapon Focus(Axes) to gain the +1 to hit with the axes head, adn the Weapon Focus (Spears) to get +1 to hit with the spear head). Same goes for Weapon Spec, etc.

In regards to racial profs, heres how i do it for the standard D&D races (i have my own world specific elves, etc) Dwarves gain Exotic Axe Prof instead of their weapon familiarity (Basically, a fairly standard melee-based Dwarf would take the Axe Weapon Group, and would then have the Exotic Axes feat apply. If they dont take the axe wepaon group, then they would obviously gain no benefit from the Exotics Axes Prof. Elves gain the Weapon group of Bows as a bonus Prof (as a spellcaster this will help with profs, and as a melee character, they can focus on melee weapons) instead os their normal automatic profs. Gnomes gain Exotic Hammers as a bonus prof, instead of their normal Weapon Familiarity. Halflings gain a +1 to hit with any weapon that is thrown and slings (being the only missile weapon that gains a +1 to hit) this includes (for example, among many others) Shurikens from the Monk Weapons Group, all Throwing Spears, throwing axes, hammers and clubs, etc etc. **NOTE: adding in some other standard races here: Drow Elves gain Light Blades or Crossbows (they favour hand crossbows, rapiers and shortswords). Duegar Dwarves dont gain the bonus Exotic Axes prof. All other subraces have the standard profs

as for Regional Profs for the FRCS, here is how i do it (mind you, i dont have this written down yet [and i will] but i am, for now, playing it by ear) Races of Faerun will be your best friend for this part. Now, as i count it, there are 15 Weapon Groups, and Basic Weapons (which every class gets). Fighters gain 4 Weapon Groups with their class features, so what i would do is for every Region, have about 5, 6 or 7 (7 being the max) Weapon Group Profs availiable. for example, the slaver state of Thay would have Entangling Weapons as a must have, while Cormyr would for sure have Heavy Blades, what with all those Purple Dragon Kinghts running around in Fullplate.

anyways, i hope this gives you some insight. and yeah, i know it is a bit of a mouthful, but gimme some feedback on what you thnik of it.