D&D (2024) With Weapon Mastery likely making it in, do you want optional exotic weapons and exotic weapon masteries?

[UngainlyTitan]

I would get rid of simple/martial split in addition.

The weapons table is all over the place, with so sense what so ever.


shortbow is simple and longbow is martial? why? it's the same weapon with different weight pull.

same goes for all crossbows, why is light simple and heavy martial? point of all crossbows is to be simple to aim.

Same goes for firearms, they phased out bows as you could teach a village idiot how to use a musket in an hour.

handaxe simple, battleaxe martial? it's a damn axe.

same goes for light hammer and warhammer, some would even say that light hammer is more difficult as you need to learn to throw it at range, not just bash someone over head. Same as handaxe.

sickle is simple with it's disadvantage shape for combat and morning star that requires no edge alignment is martial? haha.


also, finesse has same value as versatile? what a joke.


where is the longspear, simple twohanded weapon, after a rock and stone dagger, one of the 1st known weapons to humanity?

First off I agree that there is little sense to the weapons table. But in my opinion there has never been much sense in the D&D combat system. It has never had the granularity to do a decent job of differentiating weapons. The original designers did not sit down and think about how hand to hand fighting could be simulated they took an existing wargame mechanic and adapted it to man to man combat system and the rest was bolted on as it came up.
To be honest I think it was a big mistake for WoTC to adopt the 6 second round the old one minute round made more sense for the level of abstraction D&D works at.

 

[Horwath]

Or just give everyone spell casting.

seems that the game is going towards that direction

No need to gate fireball behind a level 5 caster....

similar to fey touched or shadow touched:

8th level feat:
+1 int, wis or cha
learn one 3rd level spell
gain one 3rd level slot.

Done.

Or you know. Let the game have different classes.

Sure.
But Weapon expert is not that good of a feature it should be default mastery mechanic.
Now, applying 2 masteries at once, would be a nice fighter feature for 7th level.

 

[tetrasodium]

First off I agree that there is little sense to the weapons table. But in my opinion there has never been much sense in the D&D combat system. It has never had the granularity to do a decent job of differentiating weapons. The original designers did not sit down and think about how hand to hand fighting could be simulated they took an existing wargame mechanic and adapted it to man to man combat system and the rest was bolted on as it came up.

The value in the simple/martial weapons split is similar to the value in light medium and heavy armor being split. The splits in each encourage different classes to lean towards selecting from a particular pool before then further narrowing that pool based on build choices. All of that combines together in a way that allows the gm to direct magic items towards a particular subset of the PCs pat their table without having to resort to extremes like race/class/sex/etc restrictions that explicitly restrict an item to Bob specifically.

5e of course ruined that by making the equipment too easily usable by any build simple mechanically. The usability expansion ensures that most or even all PCs at the gm's table are probably pulling from the same pool unless they are different for flavor or weird niche. The shift to overly simplistic equipment ensures that equipment lacks any build specific subjective elements that might have otherwise led to that second filtering when a player wants to do the ttrpg equipment of mashing need on anything they could use when it's really greed rather than need.

To be honest I think it was a big mistake for WoTC to adopt the 6 second round the old one minute round made more sense for the level of abstraction D&D works at.

Agreed 100%. The shift has a huge impact even beyond combat and imo encourages the expectation that any action like searching a room/dealing with traps/scouting ahead/etc gets done instantly or close rather than expecting to spend a few minutes or more doing a thing while dungeon crawling / crafting/ doing town stuff or whatever.

 

[mamba]

But Weapon expert is not that good of a feature it should be default mastery mechanic.

no, wizards and clerics have no business having weapon masteries. That does not mean there can’t be more weapon skills for martial classes, imo there should be, but those would be tied to the class, not the weapon

 

[Shardstone]

No to all of it. Exotic weapons are not needed at all. The only weapons that should be considered to add to the PH are those that fill in a mechanically and narratively distinct function.

Boomerangs won't return if they hit someone. This isn't Zelda. They return if they keep their momentum and are able to fulfill their circular route. It's fine for a boomerang to be a martial bludgeoning weapon that returns to you if it misses the target or isn't otherwise hindered.

Chakrams don't return at all, despite people wanting them to because of Xena. Chakrams can be listed as a martial (maybe even simple, on par with a javelin) thrown slashing weapon with javelin-like range.

Khopeshs don't need a different entry. If you envision a smaller khopesh, it can be a scimitar. A larger khopesh can be a longsword.

In real life, Scythes are unfit to be used as weapons. But if we go pure fantasy, they are mechanically no better than a halberd or a glaive (which are identical martial, two-handed, slashing weapons with heavy and reach). Is it important to add scythes to give them a unique Weapon Mastery?

No to "jagged" weapons being something different. No to higher crit range as a Mastery.

Nets have been removed as weapons. Mancatchers fit that paradigm. They can be made as tools that allow you to grapple at range.

I can see adding a longer martial chain weapon as something unique, but it has to fit neatly into design and not try to do all the things (like trying to design it to be better for grappling, tripping, and disarming at reach, etc.) Give it a clear identity, pick one of the Masteries that fit, and it will be fine.

Most boring response in the thread. Need some more imagination!

 

[Horwath]

no, wizards and clerics have no business having weapon masteries. That does not mean there can’t be more weapon skills for martial classes, imo there should be, but those would be tied to the class, not the weapon

they dont have it.
Well, they can have it with a feat.
As it should be. Martials get it as class features, casters need to invest extra resources.

 

[Horwath]

The value in the simple/martial weapons split is similar to the value in light medium and heavy armor being split. The splits in each encourage different classes to lean towards selecting from a particular pool before then further narrowing that pool based on build choices.

armor categories have no sense also.
They started good with some str requirements, now they need to make it global for armor.

padded min STR 8
up to plate with min STR of 18.
with every armor having it's own max DEX mod.

 

[Shardstone]

I don't see the need for exotic weapons. Invariably they end up not being any better than regular weapons mechanically because of the costs it requires to be able to use them. An Exotic Weapon requires a feat to use? Well, that exotic weapon's base stats better then be on par with the mechanics you can get when you combine a 2-Handed Weapon and Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master, otherwise you are paying a hefty price just to say you are using a goofy-looking weapon (which you could do otherwise just by taking a normal weapon and saying that it's that goofy weapon.) I have yet to see why it's worth it to have them in the game.

Think of the possibilities with unique weapon masteries, man. We are one step from a great weapon arts system ala Elden Ring

 

[Horwath]

Think of the possibilities with unique weapon masteries, man. We are one step from a great weapon arts system ala Elden Ring

every unique weapon mastery they think along the way can be added to base weapon mastery table.
Why make another category?

 

[Shardstone]

no, they are all just longswords, same mastery

Boring.