D&D General Reification versus ludification in 5E/6E

[mamba]

The creatures being discussed are literally under CR 2. We're talking monster math that fails at level 4, not 14.

it’s not math, it’s design

 

[ezo]

My stance is that a game that does not provide any explanation or states that they aren't needed because the numbers are what's important is not a game I'm interested in playing. That design philosophy does not appeal to me.

Sure. That is important to some players, and not important to others. No game appeals to everyone.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think that's a necessary cost, but yes.

Because it's not a necessary cost.

 

[Remathilis]

Cool. Cool. I was clearly talking about the 5e(2014 versions of things). Context is your friend. You did see the 2014 mentioned in my post, right?

The 5.5e problems are problems, yes. I have no desire to come up with weak justifications for the 5.5e issues as I mentioned in an earlier post.

Yes, you were comparing the 2024 hobgoblin to the 2014 mage. I'm suggesting apples to apples, 24 to 24.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, you were comparing the 2024 hobgoblin to the 2014 mage. I'm suggesting apples to apples, 24 to 24.

It's apples to oranges, though. The two editions are not the same.

 

[Remathilis]

It's apples to oranges, though. The two editions are not the same.

So where does Monsters of the Multiverse fit? 14 or 24? Because MoTM uses similar concepts for monsters design, but was published prior to the new MM.

 

[mamba]

Yes, you were comparing the 2024 hobgoblin to the 2014 mage. I'm suggesting apples to apples, 24 to 24.

we were comparing how 2014 got it right and 2024 got it wrong. You just found another example for it

 

[TwoSix]

Perhaps the issue is the Monster Manual needs to not just remove humanoids, but any weapon welding creatures? They didn't go far enough by adding claws and natural armor to goblinoids and Kobolds?

I'd be good with that. You don't really need stats for low-level mooks, and high-challenge humanoids should be unique and created with some forethought.

 

[Maxperson]

So where does Monsters of the Multiverse fit? 14 or 24? Because MoTM uses similar concepts for monsters design, but was published prior to the new MM.

It was created with the 5.5e design philosophy, so it falls into the latter edition, even though it came out before the core books did.

 

[TwoSix]

That's a False Dichotomy. It's not, "Long sloggy fight with middling damage" or "Attacks that make no sense within the fiction." There's the third option of, "Has a written special ability in the stat block that lets it do more damage."

And it's also trivial to explain that the ability is any combination of special training and attunement, such that the PC can't simply equip and use the looted items.