Rhemoraz CR7?

[Shard O'Glase]

I was looking through the monster manuel for ways to abuse a shifter when I glanced at the remhoraz, big scaled, multileged thing. I noticed it was considered CR7, then I looked at its abilites. ac 20ish, 70+hp so far so good, one attack at +13 for 2d8+12 still fine, improved grab and swallow. You hit with bite you get to automatically try to grab, if you do you do bite damage again, and can swallow it. OK seems really good now. Is that all in one round though, or is the swallow action a separate action?

Oh and when it is enraged anything touching it takes 10d10 heat damge, melting most weapons magic weapons get a save. Now how do you determine it is enraged, when it takes damage, whenever it wants, whenever it attacks something etc? If either of the last two, that bute attack is actually 2d8+12+10d10, check for grab to take another 2d8+12, and be swallowed hole, taking another 2d8+12and 10d10.

So theoretically during the surprise round(chances are it will gain surprise since it waits in ambush beneath the snow and uses it tremorsense to notice people above and then it springs up and attacks) Anyways it gets an attack at +13 doing 2d8+12+10d10, check for grab, grab doing another 2d8+12, swallowtake another 2d8+12+10d10. Now the normal round starts, it gets mid point initiative, it gets hit once or twice, it gets to attack, bite,grab,swallow,it gains an AoO for a bite/grab/swallow etc.

CR7? I think it would be the rare 7th level party that survived an attack from one, not just lose 20% of their resources.

 

[Dreaddisease]

I agree

Anything that has an ability to do 10d10 or massive damage on average in one hit is something for 10th level or higher.

The only way to bring this down to 7th level would to make the campaigners drastically aware of the exact position of the beast so they can start pelting it from a 1000 feet away, while the rhemoraz is asleep.

 

[Crothian]

I'm not too sure I have the answers to your questions, but I can tell you what happened to a party that went up against one of these. Party was a brd4/fgt 4/duelist2, a cleric 9, a Ranger6/prestige ranger4, and a rogue4/sorcer 6.

The creature got surprise on them. I randomly attacked the rogue/sorcerr and he got swallowed and died. Too much damage too fast. THe duelist charged the beast(not knowing the friend was already dead) and took significant damage when he was attacked. The cleic protected himself and the Ranger fired arrows injuring the beast. fast forward five round. Duelist is dead, cleric's at death's door, Ranger is valiently trying to save people. Fast forward two more rounds: dead party.

Now, this happened outside the campaign. I thoiught the battle would go bad, so I left this out of the adventure. We finished early that night and asked the guys if they wouldsn't mind doing a "what if " battle.

If they would have had info on the beast, and better yet surprise on it instead of the other way around it would have gone much differnetly. But, they failed their rolls and the thing made its.

CR 7? I'm not sure how......

 

[Henrix]

Strange that there's no official errata for MM.
Are we still on the first printing?

 

[Rowenstin]

Will save is only +2 o +3. Higly vulnerable to Fear spells or Charm Monster. So if you have the proper character with the proper spells, you can win easily. If not, you´r doomed. Doesn´t define it a poorly designed monster?

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

IMO, the remorhaz is a hard one to classify.

It can be deadly to a level 7 party, but can also be a pushover to a higher level party.

It has 2 things really going for it. You can't really attack it with melee weapons (And certainly not unarmed), and if it does manage to swallow you, you are probably dead.

On the other hand, if you are ready with protection from elements or similar magic, you can greatly reduce its advantage. And a party of greater than 7th level is very likely to be prepared to resist fire just as a general precaution. Maybe not always, but it is reasonable to expect.

Fly and Slow are both L3 spells that will ruin the remorhaz's day.

I am not saying that it is a clearly CR 7 monster, but a level 7 party can do 73 points damage to a creature with AC 20 and no energy resistance in a very short time. And a creature that is land bound and has no attack form other than melee is going to be severly handicapped against a party of level greater then 7.

I would have a hard time giving an 8th or 9th level party CR9 experience for beating one.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm not too sure I have the answers to your questions, but I can tell you what happened to a party that went up against one of these. Party was a brd4/fgt 4/duelist2, a cleric 9, a Ranger6/prestige ranger4, and a rogue4/sorcer 6.

The creature got surprise on them. I randomly attacked the rogue/sorcerr and he got swallowed and died. Too much damage too fast. THe duelist charged the beast(not knowing the friend was already dead) and took significant damage when he was attacked. The cleic protected himself and the Ranger fired arrows injuring the beast. fast forward five round. Duelist is dead, cleric's at death's door, Ranger is valiently trying to save people. Fast forward two more rounds: dead party.

Now, this happened outside the campaign. I thoiught the battle would go bad, so I left this out of the adventure. We finished early that night and asked the guys if they wouldsn't mind doing a "what if " battle.

If they would have had info on the beast, and better yet surprise on it instead of the other way around it would have gone much differnetly. But, they failed their rolls and the thing made its.

CR 7? I'm not sure how......

In my experience, a nearly completely multiclassed party means a dead party.

 

[Crothian]

In my experience, a nearly completely multiclassed party means a dead party.

Well, the Ranger prestige class was a more powerful and focused Ranger. So, it made him better. The Sorcerer was not as effective once he took Rogue levels. Overall, they did okay throughout that campaign. No character actually died in the campaign.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Axiomatic Unicorn I can see your point. The only problem I have with this creature is that it is so likely to kill at least one party member no matter how well the party is prepared. Loosing 20% of my resources usually doesn't mean kill 20% of the party.

Considering the monsters tactics it is almost guaranteed to gain a surprise round on the party until they have some kind of ability to detect subteranian creatures. The 1st round liekly before a person can put up a resist elements spell they could very easily take 170 points of damage, even at 9-12th level that can be fatal. (partial charge in surprise round to attack rear crature at maximum reach, AB+15 bite damage 2d8+12(20ave)its enraged so its touch does an additional 10d10(55dmg) it gets an auto grap at +23 on the graple check(very likely success)for an additional 2d8+12(20dmg) it then swallows doing another2d8+12and10d10 for(20+55dmg). Party wins initiative if they attack in melee the remorhaz can likely get an AoO and the entire attack routine I just gave could happen again excpet the initial bte would be at +13 without the charge bonus. When the remoraz goes it could attack again for all that damage. Now the wizard(with flight) in the party or someone with good movement(boots striding/springing) could move away and bombard the creature with spells and missiles.

The problem is it is very possible even likely that it might take out one or two party members in the surprise+1st round, and this could be even vs level 12ish parties.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I have several comment about this beast.

1-Why the heck isn't it a fire subtype creature?

2-I think it is unfair as well as a little ridiculous to use the 10D10 heat damage during the surprise round. Snow+extreme heat=Foutain of steam. When does he become enraged? When wounded might be a good guideline.

3-I don't see why the Rhemoraz should automatically be the only one to act during a surprise round. It is buried, great. But it'll make noise when it starts moving up. Enter a listen check. Those who make it get to participate during the surprise round.

The way I run my campaign, if a buried Rhemoraz surge forward to attack someone every PC would get a listen check modified by distance and opposed by the opponent's move silently check.

Then we all roll initiative and those who made a successful listen check get to act during the surprise round while the other have to wait for the normal round. As such it isn't unlikely that the PC that the Rhemoraz wants to eat succeeds his listen check, thus feeling the earth shake, and wins initiative, thus moving away before the Rhemoraz emerge.

How does the rest of you handle ambushes?