Thomas Shey
Legend
It was basically "Mad Max on the water". It wasn't a bad Mad Max style movie, but it wasn't so good that it could be viewed as a big ticket movie, and gods above was it expensive (as is anything filmed in and above water usually).
RIP Morbius
It was basically "Mad Max on the water". It wasn't a bad Mad Max style movie, but it wasn't so good that it could be viewed as a big ticket movie, and gods above was it expensive (as is anything filmed in and above water usually).
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
It ended up being hella expensive because a hurricane destroyed the set. So, it wasn't just an overindulgent pet project as often touted.
Thomas Shey
Legend
I don't hate him, though I understand why others do. I'm apparently one of the few people who thought his take on the Joker in Suicide Squad was a pretty legit take on a version of the character who has just been out of public view for a long time (the Dick Tracy-style theme gangster). But I also get why his rock-star attitude and method-acting hijinks don't endear him to a lot of people.
Thomas Shey
Legend
That's part of the intrinsic risk with that kind of filming.
But costs are always a thing. Though the marketing was handled for crap, and as has been noted the lead wasn't strong, John Carter would probably have not been viewed as big a failure if the new (to live action) director hadn't allowed retakes to get away from him and balloon the costs.
Ryujin
Legend
It also didn't help that they lost a day of filming to chasing down their lead, who was lashed to a runaway sailboat.
Grendel_Khan
Hero
I just find it weird when public opinion about a movie gets so wrapped up in the business of it. Unless you're a producer, a studio exec, or some outside investor, who cares if there were budget overruns? Or when a movie flops, does that mean it's bad? When it does insane box office numbers, does that mean it's great? As trivia this stuff can certainly be interesting, but, imo, none of that should have anything to do with someone's assessment of how good or not-good it is.
In the cases of Waterworld and John Carter, gossipy gossip preceded their release and gave people a tidy, seemingly insider-ish opinion to have about them, and that was that. Oh, that movie? Heard it was expensive, and it flopped. Must be terrible!
But mention Blade Runner's budget overruns, disastrous test audience reactions, and bad box office numbers, and that's just studios and mainstream audiences not knowing a great movie when it's in front of their faces!
Again, the trivia and the production details can be really entertaining (I definitely eat it all up). But it can also provide easy, knee-jerk meta-narratives that have nothing to do with film criticism or analysis, particularly before the damn thing even comes out.
(Also, not really defending Waterworld here, but at the very least it's a supremely weird movie and a huge swing, which is more than I can say for some MCU movies)
In the cases of Waterworld and John Carter, gossipy gossip preceded their release and gave people a tidy, seemingly insider-ish opinion to have about them, and that was that. Oh, that movie? Heard it was expensive, and it flopped. Must be terrible!
But mention Blade Runner's budget overruns, disastrous test audience reactions, and bad box office numbers, and that's just studios and mainstream audiences not knowing a great movie when it's in front of their faces!
Again, the trivia and the production details can be really entertaining (I definitely eat it all up). But it can also provide easy, knee-jerk meta-narratives that have nothing to do with film criticism or analysis, particularly before the damn thing even comes out.
(Also, not really defending Waterworld here, but at the very least it's a supremely weird movie and a huge swing, which is more than I can say for some MCU movies)
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
I think it is an indication that things are going pear shape for the movie. People love to rubberneck a disaster. Occasionally, a really good movie comes from it, but often, its a predictable flop.
I think its a relatively new phenomena around people actually taking joy in watching something crash in burn, as opposed to, simple morbid curiosity and celebrity gossip.
Grendel_Khan
Hero
Right, but, again, something being a flop doesn't seem relevant to its quality, to me. Some of my favorite movies were flops, and arguably some of the most beloved books were commercial failures during the writers' lifetimes.
But I don't think I agree about cheering a movie's failure being new. Waterworld's going on 27-years-old now. And critics, at least, were rather psyched about Heaven's Gate disastrous release back in 1980. We just all have more access to more info now, so we have more opportunities for schadenfreude.
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
My memory could certainly be fuzzy. I recall people being amazed at the gossip and story around Waterworld. Folks seem giddy about flops these days but maybe its always been that way?
*I meant both financial flop and poor quality indication.
Storyteller Hero
Adventurer
It's worth noting that a movie becoming a flop is not unrelated to its quality, since word of mouth from people who actually watch the movie is a big driver of ticket sales.
Different people will have different points of view and different preferences for what they want from the movie-going experience.
No movie will ever please everyone, but the ones that hit enough buttons to reach critical mass with audiences tend to be objectively better overall.
In the modern era of media, people can just wait for movies to show up on their streaming services now, so movie productions need to do better, hire better people, learn from past mistakes, etc. --- it's a good thing for the movie-goer if a movie that isn't up to par for its budget tier flops at the box office since that'll hopefully pressure studio execs to hire based on actual skill and talent over favors and political agendas.
Different people will have different points of view and different preferences for what they want from the movie-going experience.
No movie will ever please everyone, but the ones that hit enough buttons to reach critical mass with audiences tend to be objectively better overall.
In the modern era of media, people can just wait for movies to show up on their streaming services now, so movie productions need to do better, hire better people, learn from past mistakes, etc. --- it's a good thing for the movie-goer if a movie that isn't up to par for its budget tier flops at the box office since that'll hopefully pressure studio execs to hire based on actual skill and talent over favors and political agendas.
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