D&D (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[mellored]

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

Getting you your 20d6 without a "rogue only" item or feat.

That they are equally applicable to every weapon user is not the solution. It is the problem.

Not sure why you see how a weapon that isn't locked to just rogues as a problem.

I want to add an extra d8 to rogue damage on average.

Do you want d8, or 20d6?

I'm trying to satisfy the playstyle where your sneak attack gets scary but you otherwise remain unremarkable.

The rules already allow for the possibility you deal sneak damage twice or more during a turn.

Sneak Attack is once per turn.
Unless your talking about haste + ready action.

Helping the rogue in general would defeat this goal.

5d6+sneak attack is more than 1d6+sneak attack.
IMO, that is more scary.

So I still don't understand what your saying.

But here's a few more ideas.

Dagger of Death
This dagger comes with 10 charges. It regains 1d6 charges at midnight.
When you make an attack roll and roll an 19 on the d20 you can expend 1 charge, if it was an 18 you can expend 2 charges, a 17 cost 3 charges, a 16 cost 4 charges, and a 15 cost 5 charges.
If you do, the attack become a critical hit.


Dagger of more Death
When you deal damage with this dagger, you can reroll any damage dice. You must use the new results.

Dagger of Unforseen Assault
When you hit a creature while you have advantage, or that is adjacent to an ally, you deal an extra 2d6 damage.



Cut throat.
Make sneak attack scary again. (Might be a bit OP).

Level 3: Ruthless
increase sneak attack dice to a d8's.

Level 9: twist the knife.
Immediately after hitting a target that you will deal sneak attack damage to, you can spend a bonus action to increase all the sneak attack dice to d10's

Level 13: slit the throat
You gain the following cunning strike options.
(2d6) The target is unable to make any verbal noises until the end of your next turn.

Level 17:
Go for the jugular
If the target fails their save against slit the throat, increase your sneak attack dice to a d10's, or d12's if you use twist the knife.

 

[CapnZapp]

Not sure why you see how a weapon that isn't locked to just rogues as a problem.

There are a truckload of weapons that aren't locked to just rogues and their existence is not a problem.

However, you appear to think that weapons not locked to rogues also satisfy the desire for weapons locked to rogues. Why?

And to clarify: it isn't that the weapon should have a class requirement of rogue. That would allow the rogue, and anyone with a single level of rogue, to use the weapon all the time.

I'm specifically asking about the playstyle where you want to sneak attack as a rogue AND do great damage. 10d6 at level 20 isn't great damage. So let's increase sneak damage!

As I have already explained to another forumist, if the weapon isn't specificially tied to sneak damage, it does not strengthen the playstyle - it diminishes it. For example, while a subclass that grants rogues Extra Attack is perfectly fine (a more warrior-y rogue is a fine archetype) it is also a solution to a different problem than mine. For my purposes, anything that allows you to not bother fulfilling the sneak attack requirements (such as the ability to make many attacks; where you deal some damage even when you can't sneak attack) is a detriment to what I'm asking for.

 

[CapnZapp]

But here's a few more ideas.

Dagger of Death
This dagger comes with 10 charges. It regains 1d6 charges at midnight.
When you make an attack roll and roll an 19 on the d20 you can expend 1 charge, if it was an 18 you can expend 2 charges, a 17 cost 3 charges, a 16 cost 4 charges, and a 15 cost 5 charges.
If you do, the attack become a critical hit.


Dagger of more Death
When you deal damage with this dagger, you can reroll any damage dice. You must use the new results.

Dagger of Unforseen Assault
When you hit a creature while you have advantage, or that is adjacent to an ally, you deal an extra 2d6 damage.



Cut throat.
Make sneak attack scary again. (Might be a bit OP).

Level 3: Ruthless
increase sneak attack dice to a d8's.

Level 9: twist the knife.
Immediately after hitting a target that you will deal sneak attack damage to, you can spend a bonus action to increase all the sneak attack dice to d10's

Level 13: slit the throat
You gain the following cunning strike options.
(2d6) The target is unable to make any verbal noises until the end of your next turn.

Level 17:
Go for the jugular
If the target fails their save against slit the throat, increase your sneak attack dice to a d10's, or d12's if you use twist the knife.

Thanks but unless I missed something you went out of your way to not add any actual sneak attack damage dice.

I remain baffled how a crystal clear and exceedingly simple concept "more sneak dice" can confound multiple forumists.

Especially when the solution is both obvious and problem-free. Just add various ways for a rogue to specialize in more sneak attack damage dice (and have this mean that rogue doesn't get as much of the rogue's other toys, of course).

We all agree it won't break a thing. We all agree the "per round" thing instead of "per turn" is both a huge problem balance-wise (if a player somehow makes multiple sneak attacks work on a regular basis that's too much damage) and "friendly-wise" (its one of the hardest system mastery challenges the game offers, and we're talking a level 1 core class feature here).

Perhaps some of you secretly want sneak attacks to go away, making the rogue work just like other martials, but if you're a fan of the sneak attack mechanism, you will want to hand out sneak dice specifically, like I do.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Thanks but unless I missed something you went out of your way to not add any actual sneak attack damage dice.

I remain baffled how a crystal clear and exceedingly simple concept "more sneak dice" can confound multiple forumists.

i mean, for someone advocating for people to 'open their minds to alternate possibilities for a more offensive rogue' or something to that effect the fact that the only possibilities you want to consider that happening through are ones which take the form of 'more sneak attack', people are going to want to push back against that unnecessary hangup which is a constraint against your own mission statement.

just because another class might also be able to utilise a weapon designed for rogue that's not the end of the world, especially if they don't get as much out of it as the rogue, like say, a dagger than can be thrown as your opportunity attack, for most people that'll just be 1d4+mod damage at range, nice but not too great, but for the rogue that's a MASSIVE opportunity to semi-consistently get another Xd6 sneak attack off-turn.

 

[Horwath]

Buff assassin rogue.
gain extra sneak attack die at class levels: 3,6,10,14,18.

 

[CapnZapp]

just because another class might also be able to utilise a weapon designed for rogue that's not the end of the world, especially if they don't get as much out of it as the rogue

And those kinds of weapons are perfectly fine and you should totally hand them out.

One thing does not preclude the other.

 

[CapnZapp]

but for the rogue that's a MASSIVE opportunity to semi-consistently get another Xd6 sneak attack off-turn.

In my last campaign my DM handed out this item (a version with the finesse property) to the rogue:


That's definitely an attractive item, and yes, "punishing parry" does make it much much easier to pull off a second sneak attack in any given round.

Here's the relevant parts:

Punishing Parry. While you're holding this quarterstaff and another creature hits you with a melee attack, you can expend 1 charge as a reaction to add 1d6 to your AC for that attack, potentially causing it to miss you. If the attack misses you because of this bonus to AC, you can immediately make a melee attack with the quarterstaff against the attacking creature as part of your reaction.

Still, items and features that hand out more sneak dice would also be nice.

 

[mellored]

Thanks but unless I missed something you went out of your way to not add any actual sneak attack damage dice.

Rolling huge amount of dice every turn isn't great for the rest of the party.

I remain baffled how a crystal clear and exceedingly simple concept "more sneak dice" can confound multiple forumists.

As I keep saying, class specific items and feats are not good.

But hey. It's your game. So if you want to homebrew a dagger of +3 sneak attack dice, go ahead.

You don't need our permission.

In my last campaign my DM handed out this item (a version with the finesse property) to the rogue:

That's a homebrew item.

 

[CapnZapp]

Rolling huge amount of dice every turn isn't great for the rest of the party.

Tell that to the evoker

As I keep saying, class specific items and feats are not good.

Yet they exist

But hey. It's your game. So if you want to homebrew a dagger of +3 sneak attack dice, go ahead.

You don't need our permission.

Obviously you knew I already knew that.

The discussion we're having here isn't "May I?"

Instead we're discussing how bonus sneak dice would be a good and reasonable addition to D&D and how inexplicable it is that WotC have managed such discipline not adding a feature we all agree will break nothing

That's a homebrew item.

Yes it is. It was made by Griffon's Saddlebag, not by WotC.

I posted it as a comment on your own homebrewing

 

[Horwath]

Tell that to the evoker

It really gets annoying, especially with people not ultra fast with math.
hence:

fireball 4d6+14,
other rolls, 4 dice max for rolling, rest is average. Rolling is faster, damage is more consistent.

last thing I want to see is 15th level rogue critting, then spending 3 minutes gathering 20 d6's, rolling, spending another 2 minutes adding up, then deciding to use some ability to reroll the damage.