D&D 4E Running player commentary on PCat's 4E Campaign - Heroic tier (finished)

[Piratecat]

Since it's the end of the year and the campaign has been running for 14 months (!), I'm giving some thought to things I like and things I plan to adjust. This is all brainstorming, so there's no particular order to them.

For any of my players reading this, I'd be interested in any feedback and observations, both positive and constructive! It's fun to keep making the game better. Similarly, what have you folks found to be essential lessons from running or playing games?

• Attendance has been really good. There have been a few games we've canceled due to schedule difficulty, but having a fixed day, six players and being willing to play with only four means that most games have gone off. Tonight's game is game #26. That averages a game every 17 days; since we generally play every 2 weeks, we're right on track.
  
• Levelling is on track. My initial goal was to have them level every 5 sessions. Tonight's game, #26, is the second one at 6th level. I like this pace of levelling. It gives people enough time to know their abilities but not so much they get bored.
  
• The players feel like their characters are poor, possibly because they paid for a lot of healing potions before they got a leader in the group. I'm working to rectify that.
  
• I'd never heard of Dragon Age when I started this game. Weird coincidence that they have the monster-hunting organization named the Grey Wardens! A different long-term plot, of course, but I was surprised by the parallels.
  
• Our wizard feels ineffective. Part of that is consistently bad dice rolling, but I'm working to include rituals and other things to help.
  
• I need to roll out plot faster than I have been. It sounds ludicrous to say that I'm worried about fitting everything into a six year campaign, but I was having so much fun introducing stuff in Floodford that I put off introducing and developing some threads. The second half of heroic tier will include be slotting some of those into place.
  
• Similarly, I've been slacking on character development plotlines for the players; they're in place, but not moving quickly enough. That'll change.
  
• There weren't any rogues in my last campaign, and I got lazy about using traps and locks. Now that I have two rogues in the party, that's no longer a good idea.
  
• Most games have involved at least one combat. Most combats are in one way or another plot related. Games with totally random combats aren't as much fun for me as games that are more focused on the ongoing adventure. Alas, random encounter tables, I barely knew ye.
  
• Pacing is important. Not every combat should be at "on-level xp" difficulty. Sometimes the most fun thing is to swarm the group with minions or fewer combatants than recommended, just so you don't feel bad when unleashing your big guns later.
  
• Dynamic battlegrounds are key. Static or personality-free battlegrounds run the risk of contributing to boredom. The details of the fight (who, what and where) should make the fight more interesting for everyone.
  
• Speaking of avoiding boredom, fast fights are essential. Letting players know their order in the initiative, and having them plan their action while other people go, really helps.
  
• I REALLY need to just set aside a bunch of hours and map my world in a non-scribbled-on-scrap-paper way. I know what it looks like in my head, but that helps no one but me. Similarly, detailing various countries and rulers for everyone else will really pay off.
  
• A list of NPC names and identities to share with the players is another good idea.
  
• I have deliberately made the Grey Guard into an apolitical organization (another inadvertent commonality with Dragon Age), in a world where politics are vicious and important. It'll be interesting to see what that means.
  
• I see religion and the Caprian Empire's bureaucracy both playing a large role in the world, but I've almost completely ignored them so far. That should be remedied. In a world where the First Emperor ascended to the heavens and there's an official patron God that everyone is required to venerate, religion should be much more in-your-face and obvious than it has been. (To be fair, the PCs are off in the far flung provinces where such things aren't as important, but I haven't been stressing it in my Merchant Prince campaign either.)
  
• One of the best things I do for my sanity is have a separate Word doc for each level. In that doc I track treasure parcel distribution, including who gets what and when; I also copy-n-paste in stat blocks from DDI and keep master lists of names and plots. It tells me roughly what happened to who on what game, and makes it really easy to refer back.
  
• Similarly, regarding DDI? Worth every penny to me. My average game prep time is a half hour to an hour, including plot development and loot/monster customization.
  
• The downside of heavy DDI reliance is that house rules and custom magic items now make me think twice before implementing them. That makes me sad, but probably isn't a bad thing. I'm mostly taking existing items, keeping combat stats the same and completely changing the chrome so they appear to be something else.
  
• Having Sagiro manage condition tracking with a white board has been key. Tracking conditions and marks is hands-down my least favorite aspect of 4e. There's lots of things for me to love, but that isn't one of them.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

Man, PC, THis is exactly why I make it a point to follow the posts you make on here, and why I'm glad you're back from your hermitage or whatever. So many of your concerns about your game are the same as mine, it helps me feel like I'm not so lame . . .

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Rel]

[*] Having Sagiro manage condition tracking with a white board has been key. Tracking conditions and marks is hands-down my least favorite aspect of 4e. There's lots of things for me to love, but that isn't one of them.[/list]

Of the many things I'd wished that I'd done differently in my 4e game, this one is probably at the top of the list. Actually rather than a written whiteboard, I'd have used a magnetic one because I've got a great set of counters for this sort of thing that I could have simply stuck adhesive magnets onto.

If another GM in our group chooses to run 4e coming up then I'm going to strongly suggest this. And when I run another 4e game then I'll certainly be doing it.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

I have experimented with a variety of different systems for conditions, we we use a variety of stuff at the table.

For a long time we've used Alea Tools' excellent magnetic disks -- still have a wide variety of colors around. But what I'm really liking these days is Dark Platypus's Action Stands.

Both work best with a surface that is magnetically receptive, of course . . . and that maybe tricky. These days we're playing on a sheet of metal I bought at a surplus yard, with a couple of sheets of white easel pad paper held down with magnets. We use a projector for maps, so a plain white surface works best, but using 1" grid easel pads lets me create maps if I'm not using the projector.

Still, even with the flags and disks, I'm not using those for everything -- conditions on NPCs that only last until the end of the player's next turn we just ask that the players remember and remind the DM.

BUT . . . here's our initiative system - with conditions included -- and idea for you that you might like, especially if you don't want to spend money.

Use small index card tents to track initiative. These we make by cutting an index card into quarters, folding each quarter in half to make it a small tent. On one side, the PC or NPC name is printed big enough that it can be read across the table. On the other, the Name is at the top, along with the initiative bonus (to break ties), then the PC or NPC's actual initiative score is written. And, then we usually make some small notes there of passive insight and perception.

Then, initiative can be tracked in an array right in front of the DM -- or even better, by one of the players. This is huge, because it puts the initiative in the hands of the players, takes tracking that off the DM's plate. It's the easiest way to keep the players thinking about their place in the initiative -- which pays huge speed dividends, as well.

Once your'e doing that, use the little post-it note bookmark flags to track conditions & marks but sticking them on the initiative tents. That way, when a new figure's turn comes up, right there on the initiative tent the flags are there to remind you of the conditions on that figure.

That works great for PCs . . . works okay for NPCs so long as you're not using the same tent for too many of the same figures.

I've tried all kinds of initiative systems -- the combat pad, flipping through index cards, a couple of different software solutions . . . and in the end I like the little index card tents the best. Our group does a lot of readying and delaying, and being able to flip the tents around like a hustler dealing three-card monte is far faster and more reliable than any other system. It pains me, as a gadget nerd, not to be using the computer or some magnet doo-dad for it . . . but i've yet to see a system that really mades it easier.

-rg

 

[Ruined]

Of the many things I'd wished that I'd done differently in my 4e game, this one is probably at the top of the list. Actually rather than a written whiteboard, I'd have used a magnetic one because I've got a great set of counters for this sort of thing that I could have simply stuck adhesive magnets onto.

Have either of you tried colored rings or other items on the miniatures themselves for tracking? I picked this up watching the local RPGA group and it's been great for me. We've just taken the rings from various soda bottles and when a target is bloodied, marked, or gains a condition, on goes a ring. The discipline for me is when it's time for a PC / NPC to act, you need to check them for rings to see what they have to save against. Either way, it visually helps the players a lot. They know that red rings (Coke) are bloodied, blue rings (Pepsi) are marked by the paladin, etc. After a while, it becomes second nature.

 

[Rel]

Have either of you tried colored rings or other items on the miniatures themselves for tracking? I picked this up watching the local RPGA group and it's been great for me. We've just taken the rings from various soda bottles and when a target is bloodied, marked, or gains a condition, on goes a ring. The discipline for me is when it's time for a PC / NPC to act, you need to check them for rings to see what they have to save against. Either way, it visually helps the players a lot. They know that red rings (Coke) are bloodied, blue rings (Pepsi) are marked by the paladin, etc. After a while, it becomes second nature.

I have heard of this but not used it precisely. Instead we've used counters (from my Descent boardgame) for tracking this kind of stuff. It's been useful for marking cursed enemies by the Warlock, the Paladin's Challenge and the Hunter's Mark for sure. But we've been less disciplined about using them for other status effects, partly because it meant having to put so many tokens on the board that it became cluttered.

That's why next time around I think we should use a magnet board with the markers on there. It'll help us track initiative as well as such status effects.

 

[RangerWickett]

The game I play in uses Alea Tools - Alea Tools - Home of Stackable Magnetic Markers - plus a magnetic board. Me, I hate the slowdown caused by minis and gridded battle maps, so I just handle combat with hastily drawn scratch paper maps.

 

[Piratecat]

Interesting game last night, as the PCs were charged with sewer-checking before a royal parade and stumbled across some would-be royal assassins. Things that helped the fight:

- The bad guys were two lurkers (doppelganger assassins), a leader (a cleric of the God of Change) and a controller (a halfling wizard.) With no central brute or skirmishers, the fight largely hinged on who could gain combat advantage and keep it.

- I've learned that the PCs are largely unbribeable; being offered a sack of 1500 GP to go away didn't even cause 'em to blink.

- The fight occurred at a four-way intersection in a 20' wide sewer, with 5' ledges hugging the walls to keep people out of the sewer trench. Wooden planks had been set up by the bad guys to get from one side to the other. Movement pretty much required leaping across sewer trenches and jumping from one ledge to the other.

- Having doppelgangers in the enemy group (along with a priestess of Aika, Toiva's Goddess) made for some interesting decisions for Toiva, who of course is also a doppelganger.

- The PCs did a fantastic job of focusing fire, completely destroying one foe before moving on to the next. It was demoralizing to their enemies, let me tell you. And considering that the group is optimized to make their foes grant combat advantage, it's really nice to see how many attacks would have missed if not for that extra +2. The wizard was particularly effective here, leading with a spell (phantasmal assailants, maybe?) that ended up making the enemy leader particularly vulnerable.

- The foes scattered when things went poorly for them, requiring the PCs to decide who to hunt down and who to ignore.

- The intended assassination weapon was a box of alchemical bombs on a jury-rigged platform in the middle of the sewer intersection. It was set off early by a foe who didn't like how the fight was going. The result was spectacular: +15 vs reflex, save half, a burst 10 fireball doing 5d10 damage to the sides (and twice that straight up, as it was supposed to kill the upstart new dictator king. It also set people on fire (ongoing 5 / save ends) and blinded them for one or more rounds.

- Fictionally, the explosion also jiggled something loose in the warforged wizard's torso, and it caused his clockwork familiar to emerge. (Strontium took the familiar feat at 6th level, but fictionally hadn't had time to build him yet. This seemed better!) The familiar believes that Stront is not actually the property of the ancient Imperial Inquisitor Zacris the Undying, he IS Zacris the Undying. Hmm.)

- Following the explosion (still in the same encounter!) the halfling (who had dim-doored out and then returned for his bribe money) tried to run. I ran a variant of the chase mechanic on the previous page: I set an arbitrary goal where the NPC escapes if he reaches first. In this case, that was 150. Then I give the NPC a bonus to model his head start (+50 in this case) and everyone in the chase rolls an appropriate skill (athletics, endurance, dungeoneering, that sort of thing). If the PCs pass the NPC's current total, they've caught up to him. It worked well; they caught up just short of the escape pipe he was going to use. He was smart, but an old-school halfling and a lousy runner.

While this is turning out to be a really fun and fast method of modeling chases without having to map them out, I could have done a few things better. For instance, I didn't narrate the chase well enough. I also should have put in additional challenges at various waypoints (frex, when you pass 50 you have to jump a trench or lose 10 from your total. When you pass 100, you're in a maze of twisty little passages that all appear the same, roll a perception or dungeoneering or halve your next roll. That sort of thing.)

We ended up with the halfling surrendering, and being offered the choice of joining the Grey Guard or being turned over to the Royal Guard -- who often look down on assassins, it appears.

One last thing I did (in addition to discussing the end of year summary above.) I asked people what their least favorite magic item is. That actually tells me more than figuring out what their most favorite item is, and tells me what slot they want something else in.

 

[coyote6]

Interesting game last night, as the PCs were charged with sewer-checking before a royal parade and stumbled across some would-be royal assassins. Things that helped the fight:
[...]
- I've learned that the PCs are largely unbribeable; being offered a sack of 1500 GP to go away didn't even cause 'em to blink.

I dunno that means "unbribeable" as much as it does "able to assess the situation":

"Let's see, we can take a 1500 gp bribe, and not have to fight. Or, we can refuse it, then have to fight -- with our combat-oriented characters, in a combat-oriented game -- and when we win, we get the 1500 gp and all the rest of their stuff. Hmm..."

 

[Piratecat]

Well, Bob, *I* didn't expect them to take the bribe - but the NPCs did! Heh.

There's a conversation in another thread about good D&D design lessons I gleaned from playing Dragon Age. It may be worth repeating here for further discussion, thrown in spoiler blocks to protect those who intend to play the game but haven't done so yet.

Beware; spoilers.
[sblock]

- Make your PCs special. In this case you're a member of a unique organization that not just anyone can enter, and you're cut off from support. That makes you responsible for what happens.

- Don't let the NPCs outshine the PCs. Let's face it, Alistair should be leading instead of you. But he's insecure and has a fear of hurting people through his actions, so he's content to let you take the lead. It's a nice justification.

- Use dungeon dressing to build a mood. The first time I ran across blood mages was in the Circle Tower. The gradual growth of glistening fleshy bulbs growing across the environment - not doing anything, just sitting there - really freaked me out and set the mood. By the time they were swallowing statues and crawling across the walls, they had my attention. this is also done well before the broodmother encounter. You get a similar (if less sinister) effect from the dwarven designs in Orzammar and the thaigs, and the vast and empty spaces in the Temple of the Sacred Urn.

- Pacing. They do a good job of mixing exploration and combat, building anticipation for a few minutes before a new fight occurs.

- Narrow-Wide-Narrow. The game lets you handle the middle quests in whatever order you want, but without feeling strained it steers you closely at the beginning and end of the game. What you do in those middle quests influences your end quests. That's a good model for a campaign as well.

- Foreshadowing. Hespith's monologue before the broodmother is a beautiful example of setting up a dramatic encounter; similarly, the spiders running away from you back to their nest really gets your attention before the fight with the spider queen.

- Small actions cause big changes. The ways in which even tiny actions change the world are detailed in this list from the wiki. Save Kaitlyn, give her money to escape and she ends up marrying Bann Tegan? Who knew? Players want their actions to change the world; make sure they do, and that they get to see the result of those changes.

- Consequences. Similarly, what you do can directly impact you. Decide to cleanse the tower and you're forced to kill Wynne. Act like a jerk and people treat you accordingly.

- Tactical battlefields. Battlefields often have terrain features to help protect ranged combatants. Flanking is important. Taking out a key foe through focused fire can swing a battle. Analyzing a battlefield can be critical; the broodmother fight is a good example of this.

- Guarantee your monologues. If you want your bad guy to ramble a bit, put him someplace hard to reach or attack right away.

- Not all challenges are combat. Some are moral. The small, quiet moment in the werewolf ruins where you can choose to help the trapped soul in the ancient phylactery is one of my favorite moments in the game, because of what your decision says about you.

- Consider the culture. The comment up-thread about the campaign where elves only value beauty made me think of this. Dwarves are viciously political, ruthless, classist, and polyamorous; it makes perfect sense but was something I never considered before. The implementation of "The Dalish Elves as Israel" was a little more heavy-handed, but also helped define their culture.

- Variations on a monster theme. This is especially good for 4e; instead of creating brand new monsters, twiddle with existing ones and make them memorable. Spiders, poison spiders, thaig crawlers, corrupt spiders - I like this much more than if it had been four or more completely different creatures.

- Sometimes, you actually want funny voices for your races. This is something I think they got wrong. Dalish elves sound like dwarves sound like city elves sound like most humans. Not that all dwarves should have scottish accents, but I think that weakened their presentation.

There's more, but that's a good overview of what I noticed.[/sblock]