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D&D 5E Sane Magic Item Prices

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
The ones I asked you to price like 80 posts ago.

Not counting +2 to AC in for two handers for special in a system with bounded accuracy is baffling.
There's nothing unbounded about it. It's the same AC anyone can get by spending 10g on a shield. All it does is allow that normal ranged AC with some additional damage. That damage is worth about 10k.

At this point, though, I've given you prices for 9 items and I'm done.
 

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Chaosmancer

Legend
The issue with utility is utility for whom and what is the cost to create the item. A Timex and a Rolex have the same utility but vastly different cost. A Decanter of Endless Water could be expensive simply because it's incredibly difficult to craft.

Is a flame tongue longsword significantly better or worse than a +1 longsword or a +2 dagger? Depends on who's buying. How you want to organize (I just do by rarity because it's as good as anything) is going to be pretty arbitrary.

I think if you're going to attempt it though, you'll have to come up with some general categories first and then come up with a system to put items in categories. Categories could be something like common, uncommon, rare and so on ... which sounds an awful lot like what we have right now. Except of course you'd put things in different categories based on preference.


The thing is though... that exact same argument could be made for Longswords. It could be that a longsword made by random human smith is priced differently than the longsword made by Kragnor of the Iron Mountains... without any mechanical distinction at all.

But, if I wanted to show that, I could do so, because Longswords have a set price. I can even demonstrate some shoddy workmanship by lowering the price, without having to lower the mechanical effectiveness. The issue is, I can't do that with Magical Items... because they don't have prices.
 

Azzy

KMF DM
The issue with utility is utility for whom and what is the cost to create the item. A Timex and a Rolex have the same utility but vastly different cost. A Decanter of Endless Water could be expensive simply because it's incredibly difficult to craft.

Is a flame tongue longsword significantly better or worse than a +1 longsword or a +2 dagger? Depends on who's buying. How you want to organize (I just do by rarity because it's as good as anything) is going to be pretty arbitrary.

I think if you're going to attempt it though, you'll have to come up with some general categories first and then come up with a system to put items in categories. Categories could be something like common, uncommon, rare and so on ... which sounds an awful lot like what we have right now. Except of course you'd put things in different categories based on preference.
So, it sounds like you don't want to be part of the solution. Duly noted.
 





Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
@Matrix Sorcica you asked me to provide prices, which I did. That you then chose to almost completely ignore them shows the disingenuous nature of the requests you made. You had no intention of discussing with me in good faith and it shows. Now that I know what kind of poster you are and will not be providing you any further examples, on this topic or any other. So don't ask me again.
 




Azzy

KMF DM
It absolutely is. It's sufficient to show my thinking on why I price the way I do. You're opinion on this doesn't change that.
It's not enough to meet the goal of this thread. If you don't want to contribute more than that, go make your own thread that's actually relevant to whatever it is that you want to accomplish... because it's not accomplishing adding to or revising the set price list of the original post.
 


Azzy

KMF DM
You don't get to dictate the goal. I was asked for examples and I provided them.
As the person who necroed this thread asking if the OP had made any revisions or expansions to his original list—and then asking if anyone wanted to take over the task since the OP has not answered, I can safely say that you have not met or contributed anything constructive to the goal of why I necroed this thread. More over, you have been belligerent towards all that would like an established magic item pricing list. Why are you even here?
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
As the person who necroed this thread asking if the OP had made any revisions or expansions to his original list—and then asking if anyone wanted to take over the task since the OP has not answered, I can safely say that you have not met or contributed anything constructive to the goal of why I necroed this thread. More over, you have been belligerent towards all that would like an established magic item pricing list. Why are you even here?
Much like threads aren't under the control of the creator, threads necro'd aren't under the control of the necromancer. As for "belligerent," no. I've given my opinion and when people got belligerent with me, I defended myself. Hell, I even, against my better judgment, gave good faith examples to someone who seemed unlikely to have asked me for them in good faith, and got the expected attack back.

Your person goal is yours, not the thread's. So I haven't met your personal goal. Okay. I accept that.
 

Azzy

KMF DM
Much like threads aren't under the control of the creator, threads necro'd aren't under the control of the necromancer. As for "belligerent," no. I've given my opinion and when people got belligerent with me, I defended myself. Hell, I even, against my better judgment, gave good faith examples to someone who seemed unlikely to have asked me for them in good faith, and got the expected attack back.

Your person goal is yours, not the thread's. So I haven't met your personal goal. Okay. I accept that.
What is it that you hope to accomplish here? It's obvious that nobody wants what you're selling. Again, it seems extremely masturbatory on your part.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Actually, I WOULD use the skilled hireling rule, which means it WOULD cost more. A company of mercenaries would include corporals to manage squads, sergeants to manage the corporals, a lieutenant and a captain. The skilled hireling rules specify very clearly that the 2gp price is the MINIMUM, so those others would be more and the officers considerably more. Base mercenaries don't just hang around to be hired. They are groups.

Okay. Triple the price then. Instead of 100 per day it is 300 per day.

The troll hoard still pays for 6 days of that mercenary company. Again, there was no issue with the amount of money in the troll hoard, but the amount could still be used for the same shenangins that would break the game with wealth that people bring up.

Yes. A riskless roll to just get money for sitting around is more free than going into the very, VERY highly risky underdark and happening across a mindflayer body. Not only could there be other mindflayers around, but whatever manage to kill it is probably also in the area. Have fun with that. Actually, it would be fun, but hardly free.

So, it isn't the amount of money. It is about the risk. Which, again, was touching upon my exact point. There seem to be people who think it is a problem to earn larger sum of money without taking that risk. Without going into a place like the Underdark (which I never claimed that you did go into the Underdark, and actually, you are assuming that whatever killed the mind flayer is hostile to the players, and not that the players killed it.)

But, again, why? Would it be more acceptable to have my smithy on the edge of a fetid swamp where I could be attacked any day by monsters and then I could make more money than is currently allowed by the system? Why is it that we need money to be balanced by risk? It isn't like we assume that any given merchant prince took great personal risks to their body to make their fortune. Many noble families aren't full of adventurers. And if they can get wealthy without taking personal risk of bodily harm... why can't the players?

Is it because there is a fear that if the players do this... that they won't want to adventure and play Dungeons and Dragons? Why? Isn't their motivation to play more than their fake characters making fake money?



It's good for Luke and Leia that he 1) hated the empire with a passion, and 2) had a crush on Leia that turned into love.

In other words "motivations other than money" which is literally what I said. Right here, with this sentence: There is no need to fear "free" money, as long as your players have a motivation beyond profit.

Fun how I seem to.. know my own point
The carpet is faster, can be carried with a group(though still bulky), doesn't require a hired crew and is more maneuverable. That makes it much better for an adventuring group.

The carpet also has a specific price, which you the DM give it. The DMG gives 5000-50000gp as the range for rare items, not for flying carpets. Where in that range it specifically falls is part of 5e's mantra of rulings over rules and is for the DM to decide. He should have a good idea based on other rare items. Weaker rare items fall towards the 5k end of the range. Stronger, better items fall towards the 50k end of the range. Middle strength items? You guessed it. Around the 25k area of the range. It's not rocket science.

You also need to get a galley with better gas mileage. ;)

And you miss the most basic point.

Yes, the carpet can be carried by the group. Yes the carpet is more maneuverable. This increases some of its utility... but the DMG had zero issue giving an exact number for a flying ship, run by a crew, carrying a load. Which could be insanely helpful for a group. Having an airship can be game defining. And that was given a solid price. 20,000 gp. Even with all the factors that might change how useful that is, and all the GM rulings that might go into it.

But the carpet... gets a range and they leave it up to the DM to decide the price. Why? The game designers had no problem giving us a specific price for the highly situational purchase of a flying ship, but they just couldn't possibly make the same decision for a flying carpet? Because they might unbalance something? That is nonsensical.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
@Matrix Sorcica you asked me to provide prices, which I did. That you then chose to almost completely ignore them shows the disingenuous nature of the requests you made. You had no intention of discussing with me in good faith and it shows. Now that I know what kind of poster you are and will not be providing you any further examples, on this topic or any other. So don't ask me again.

You realize that if he did ignore you... then he wouldn't be able to see your post here calling him out.

And it is stunningly rude to start throwing out public accusations that we have no way of verifying, especially about a tool in the forums that is legitimately okay to use.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Okay. Triple the price then. Instead of 100 per day it is 300 per day.

The troll hoard still pays for 6 days of that mercenary company. Again, there was no issue with the amount of money in the troll hoard, but the amount could still be used for the same shenangins that would break the game with wealth that people bring up.

So, it isn't the amount of money. It is about the risk. Which, again, was touching upon my exact point. There seem to be people who think it is a problem to earn larger sum of money without taking that risk. Without going into a place like the Underdark (which I never claimed that you did go into the Underdark, and actually, you are assuming that whatever killed the mind flayer is hostile to the players, and not that the players killed it.)

But, again, why? Would it be more acceptable to have my smithy on the edge of a fetid swamp where I could be attacked any day by monsters and then I could make more money than is currently allowed by the system? Why is it that we need money to be balanced by risk? It isn't like we assume that any given merchant prince took great personal risks to their body to make their fortune. Many noble families aren't full of adventurers. And if they can get wealthy without taking personal risk of bodily harm... why can't the players?

Is it because there is a fear that if the players do this... that they won't want to adventure and play Dungeons and Dragons? Why? Isn't their motivation to play more than their fake characters making fake money?
The risk makes the reward earned. This is a game. Games come with challenges to succeed and get the rewards. For combat, the reward is experience and often treasure. For downtime, the challenge is a random range of money and for some, possibly loss of money, established by random roll.

It's also not just about risk. Amount is also a part. Obviously an orc is a risk to a level 1 adventurer. If he kills an orc and gets 10 million gold, it's going to break things pretty badly. That's why the amount of treasure found is tied directly to the CR of the challenge. There needs to be both risk and moderation(related to level) when it comes to money received.
Yes, the carpet can be carried by the group. Yes the carpet is more maneuverable. This increases some of its utility... but the DMG had zero issue giving an exact number for a flying ship, run by a crew, carrying a load. Which could be insanely helpful for a group. Having an airship can be game defining. And that was given a solid price. 20,000 gp. Even with all the factors that might change how useful that is, and all the GM rulings that might go into it.

But the carpet... gets a range and they leave it up to the DM to decide the price. Why? The game designers had no problem giving us a specific price for the highly situational purchase of a flying ship, but they just couldn't possibly make the same decision for a flying carpet? Because they might unbalance something? That is nonsensical.
Sure it's nonsensical, and it's not my argument. They gave a range, because they felt rarity was the way to assess value(I disagree) and in order to encompass all of the varying degrees of power within a specific rarity, they had to go with a range and not a static number. They couldn't just say, "10,000g for any very rare item." If they did, it would fall apart since not all very rare items are worth the same amount of money.
 

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