I didn't realize that you had altered the original premise as presented. The person who originated it didn't say scouts.
I specifically said scouts when I started listing the damage and the cost. You responded to the post, I assumed you read it.
You haven't. Triple cost isn't enough for elite scouts, who aren't hired to fight in any case.
Baseless claims with no evidence.
So first, I do and did assume experience. What I don't do is assume house rules, because those are irrelevant to a conversation about how the game functions. They only apply to your table. Your house rule not to use experience is not relevant to this discussion, other than to show why you had that oversight.
Variant rule, not houserule. It is in the DMG.
And, for having always assumed it, it is kind of amusing how you never mentioned it until S'mon did, and I agreed with them, and then you started mentioning XP in every post.
I have. 6 gold a day is not enough for a 3rd level scout. They are an elite troop that you don't even hire to fight, so I'm not sure why you used them in the first place. They are intended to track to places, people and armies, and then others do the fighting. If any scouts wind up in combat, something has gone wrong for them.
Same baseless claim with zero evidence, and just making assumptions all day long.
I'm not sure what you think I've abandoned. Mercenaries, at least the ones intended to actually fight, can in certain circumstances be effecting at taking out an enemy.
So... like I said. "Effective is Effective" it doesn't matter about being "Effective and Cost Effective to be effective". So your complaint that they aren't cost effective was pointless.
My opinion based on the facts, sure. Your opinion is based on flights of fancy where scouts hired to scout are suddenly warriors going to do battle.
I've never seen it in any fantasy books that I've read, and I've read a lot. Hell, even The Black Company doesn't like to fight. They avoid it whenever possible, even though they are really good at it.
Your opinion is based on your opinion. Your facts are no more solid than my own, unless you want to talk about the real world instead of a fantasy world.
Also, let's see:
Get Backers
Rurouni Kenshin
Inuyasha
Naruto
Akame Ga Kill
Looks like a few specific characters from Discworld by Terry Prachett
Same with Song of Ice and Fire, according to the list
Fairy Tale
One Piece has the Giants
The Slayers
The Record of the Lodoss War
The Slime Dungeon
The Tortall books from Tamora Pierce I think has one or two
Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash
oh, and if we expand to some sci-fi or "realistic fantasy" we get things like
Gundam
Black Lagoon
Got some from Star Wars in the expanded universe it seems
The Sentry by Robert Crais
Deadpool and a lot of his friends
Alita Battle Angel
Sure not all of these are exact, and this is just looking online, but there are entire tropes here. Just because you haven't read them doesn't mean that it isn't a thing in other media. This is an entire thing. Oh, also!
DnD Adventurers who get paid to go fight
You might as well use all critical hits doing max damage while you are at it. You'll do a lot more damage that way. If you're going to use ridiculous numbers, why stop halfway?
Pointless slippery slope and ad hominen (implied)
Yes, can be hired to be bounty hunters, tracking your quarry for you so that you can capture him.
I assume you have a rule that says you can't hire a former army scout to fight? Not just "their name is scout so they will never actually fight, because you name is your identity"
I thought we were using ridiculous arguments, like 100% hit rates. Was I wrong?
Yes, you are wrong, and being petty.
This is a Strawman of my argument. I was talking about offices, which cost substantially more. Those officers up the overall cost to about 6gp per day, but most of the 30 will be men making the 2gp. Base average skilled mercs. The level 1 kind. Not an entire group of officer level elite scouts(level 3). That would be substantially more than 6gp a day.
So, who is an officer? I don't see "Officer" in the NPC list in the book. I also don't see "Average skilled mercs" or even "mercenary" as an option. I mean, if scouts are going to be only scouts and nothing more than I can't hire bandits or guards, which are the only CR NPCs weaker than the scout.
So please, since your arguments are based in fact, where I can I find this "mercenary" statblock for the mercenaries that can be hired for 2 gp? Can you demonstrate that this isn't just you pulling out limitations out of thin air?
No reason except for actual reasons, which I put forth.
That they are too strong, even though they are one of the weakest NPCs in the books. Only stronger than Guards, Commoners, Bandits, Cultists, and Tribal Warriors. None of whom would make sense to hire as mercenaries, by your own logic.
And... that's about the limit of your argument. They are too powerful, therefore they should cost up to 5 times more than the standard rate.
At level 3, most PC parties I know would want about 250g each for a two week job, so about 18g a day.
Seriously?
Wow, talk about ignoring your own arguments. That ends up being 1,000 to 1,500 gold for the party for a single job, barring anything they find. And yet, I talked about finding a troll hoard at 5th level that would give the party 3,000 gold and you insisted that "hoards are hard to come buy"
Guess I just need to be hired for a month and then I can make 3,000 gold... huh. That's odd. Didn't this whole thing start with me talking about a 3rd to 5th level cleric making a little over a thousand gold working for a month? And how that was bad. At 3rd level just offering my services as a bodyguard at 18 gold per day nets 540 gp for a month. No need to do any of that other stuff.
Weird. It seems like I wasn't that far off after all.
Good gladiators were a costly investment and treated well.
Better than the Lord?
Because 315 gp a week is 16,380 gp per year to "treat" the gladiator. Again, that is 45 gold per day. While at 10 gp per day you can follow this lifestyle
Aristocratic. You live a life of plenty and comfort. You move in circles populated by the most powerful people in the community. You have excellent lodgings, perhaps a townhouse in the nicest part of town or rooms in the finest inn. You dine at the best restaurants, retain the most skilled and fashionable tailor, and have servants attending to your every need. You receive invitations to the social gatherings of the rich and powerful, and spend evenings in the company of politicians, guild leaders, high priests, and nobility. You must also contend with the highest levels of deceit and treachery. The wealthier you are, the greater the chance you will be drawn into political intrigue as a pawn or participant.
This is at 10 gp a day. The Gladiator is making 4 times this. They are political movers and shakers, equals to high priests, nobles, ad merchant princes.
Does that seem at all reasonable for a gladiator? A single gladiator, not a champion of the arena. Just a random Gladiator from the roster?
If you are hiring them independently, you pay more. Mercenaries were more expensive than army troops. You can see that in the real world as well. Our non-officer soldiers are paid really low wages, but bands of competent mercenaries make a boatload.
Oh, I see. If the players are hiring someone, the price increases, but if it is an organization hiring them, the price is decreased because they are suddenly worth less?
Funny, I don't see that sort of distinction listed in the book anywhere. Must be another one of those "totally real rules in the book that I'm not just making up, and if I am, it is because I use logic and you can't argue logic" type rules.
Orrrrr, you can just make the general statement in one paragraph like I did, and get the point across. No need to take all that time.
I did make a general statement. And then you decided that you must absolutely prove how trash my opinion was because I dared to make math easier and didn't account for monsters being smart, and of course the terrain, how could I not address terrain.
You assumed a space so wide open that all 30 archers would have multiple rounds of firing free and clear on the target. That's a huge open space...................that doesn't commonly happen with encounters.
Funny, I've played archers. Played them in dungeons. Walking past a door, shooting in, and continuing to move is something that I've done a lot.
Bet I can even find a room on a map that could allow them to break into smaller groups, and fire from multiple angles.
But, nope, you want to assume that must be talking about a flat open plain. Can't be a temple altar room big enough for people. Or second stories. Or windows. Utterly impossible that in a forest you could have multiple lines of sight.
Safest just to assume, that way you can make you accusations seem reasonable and my very basic, non-comprehensive quick show of just the damage numbers an utterly unreasonable series of assumptions that would never hold up in a real game.
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