D&D 5E Scared Cow: magic Weapon & Armor plusses

[Sword of Spirit]

The few magic weapons and armor without pluses that are already in the DMG tell us that the game designers think you can play without pluses just fine.

As for myself? I'm fine with pluses, but a flametongue with +0 is still more interesting than a +2 sword. I don't think many players will complain about replacing pluses with something else unless they are the type of player that is really into the numbers. (Or, they might have a thematically appropriate concept of a sword that actually just is more accurate and damaging--it's simply "enhanced".)

 

[discosoc]

I've toyed with the idea of replacing pluses with actual magical effects. So magic Sword +1 would be magical (bypassing special resistances, etc) and have 1 extra property (glows blue when goblins and orcs are nearby). I think it's a lot more interesting, and definitely fits with the bounded accuracy of 5e. The main problem is that players tend to really love flat bonuses like +1 or +2, because they *are* very effective -- especially with the bounded accuracy.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think +x weapons are iconic. In 5e they are indeed powerful. They can make you literally never miss slme enemies... but then you were hitting on a 2 anyway. So without feats at least they are a nice addition to the game. And since you can't craft them easily there is no abundance of them and even a +1 weapon is special.
On the other hand I really love the magical minor properties. Shedding light. Having runes. Floating. All those little quirks make them special.

My favourite is "loud". Our rogue happened to find a randomly created loud dagger... so actually in some cases its better for him to use his good old mundane one.

 

[Krachek]

Are plusses to hit/damage or AC from magical weapons and armor a sacred cow that would feel off if it wasn't there?

We had started a game at 5th and were allowed an uncommon magic item each, and every single person who used a weapon regularly picked a +1 weapon. And really, the number of rolls that these will add to eclipses any other +1 you'll get.

(Yes, there are other good items - in a previous campaign that did the same thing I ended up with a flying item that gave me lots of uniqueness and flexibility, but those seem to be the exception.)

What if magic weapons only carried something nifty and the fact that they were magic to overcome resistance? This one has a +2 crit range, this one sheds light and does +d6 fire damage, this one fights for the wielder so acts as if you have a 17 STR when wielding it no matter what it really is.

With bounded accuracy I don't think this is the killer that it would be in some earlier editions, though it may make the "get a 20" in your attack ability something that has a higher priority.

This would be a moderate nerf to magic weapons and armor, mostly because of how prevalent the rolls are. Would that (further) upset the balance between weapon-users and spell casters?

Would you play in a game knowing that magic weapons were being changed like this? Would it impact your class selection if you did?

First nerf is to not give a free choice magic item to a starting character.
Second nerf is to realize that 5 ed can be played without magic at all. There is no such rule about a Fighter level 8 should or must have a magic weapon.

 

[Blue]

First nerf is to not give a free choice magic item to a starting character.
Second nerf is to realize that 5 ed can be played without magic at all. There is no such rule about a Fighter level 8 should or must have a magic weapon.

Okay, sorry, all of the DMs at my FLGS who start at 5th are practicing BadWrongFun. They are playing the game wrong because they don't do it your One True Way. Thanks, I'll pass on your shaming.

Second, as explained in the OP, weapon and armor can adjust a huge number of die rolls. A magic weapon could easily hit 20+ in a session - multiple attacks, applying on hit rolls and damage rolls. So whenever there is player agency in picking an item, perhaps as the rewards for a quest, that is too valuable to pass up. Now, regardless if you believe in ever letting the players get a choice, perhaps others do, so it's still a valid choice.

Please try to add to the discussion next time, instead of just saying it isn't a valid topic to discuss because no one should do it that way. Your table is not the only one.

 

[Jester David]

A standard +1 longsword is boring. But it is iconic. It's one of those thing that even people who have never played D&D are familiar with, like 18 Strength or casting magic missile. So it's going nowhere.

 

[LapBandit]

Second nerf is to realize that 5 ed can be played without magic at all.

I think you meant magic items, and no it really can't, unless you are willing to nerf martial characters altogether. From about 11th on, full casters are so powerful that unless you ramp up the magical martial items, they are going to lag behind in their ability to effect change in the world around them dramatically.

I a running two games 11th+ and have DMed or played in four more since 5E came out. I can unequivocally say that without magic items the fighters, rogues, rangers, and paladins would have been screwed (lots of resistant and a few immune to non-magical weapons enemies).

 

[LapBandit]

Second, as explained in the OP, weapon and armor can adjust a huge number of die rolls. A magic weapon could easily hit 20+ in a session - multiple attacks, applying on hit rolls and damage rolls. So whenever there is player agency in picking an item, perhaps as the rewards for a quest, that is too valuable to pass up. Now, regardless if you believe in ever letting the players get a choice, perhaps others do, so it's still a valid choice.

That is exactly what magic weapons in the hands of martial characters are supposed to do. I said it before and I'll say it again, let them have their mechanical bonus and add your cool features on top of it.

 

[Lord Twig]

Looking through the detritus of the foul monster you have just slain you see a glimmer of light. In the skeletal hands of its former master you see a sword that is untouched by rust or filth. Pulling it free the dirt and dust of time slides off leaving it completely clean.

The crossguard and pommel shine like silver and the grip is twined with golden wire. The blade itself glimmers a steely blue and the edge is flawless. As you take the grip in your hand ruby red runes flicker down the length of the blade before fading back to a dim violet, somehow still visible although they appear to be just below the surface of the blade.

The sword feels almost alive in your hands. As you make a few practice swings it seems to anticipate your moves, darting to the desired position almost before you even know you want it there yourself. Your can feel that your cuts and thrusts have an unnatural power to them that you are confident would pierce even the toughest dragon hide.

ooc: You just got a +1 sword.

There is really no need to make the martial classes weaker. I personally don't think they are outclassed by casters, but they certainly aren't overpowered. If you really want something more interesting than a +1 sword make it a +1 sword with something extra.

Shedding light like a torch goes back to the earliest edition of the game. Give it a magical effect #/day. Have it weigh nothing and float in the air when released. Maybe it will have even more powerful abilities that can be unlocked at higher levels. Even just a cool description can add a uniqueness to the standard +1 sword.

 

[TwoSix]

If the cow is really getting that terrified by the +1 weapon, I would probably just swap it for something else.