Scimitar Dance + Frost Weapons

[RigaMortus2]

In 4e, losing hit points doesn't necessarily mean sustaining physical injury, after all.

When you make a successful attack roll, it doesn't necessarily mean you actually Hit the target, although you still follow the Hit line...

When you miss your attack roll, it doesn't necessarily mean you actually miss, as you follow the Miss line (if there is any).

4e is the only game where a Hit is a Miss, and a Miss is a Hit...

 

[Saeviomagy]

From a balance standpoint, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but rules is rules, and from a 'what the rules say' standpoint, it's a different story.

And what the rules say is extremely muddy. When that's the case, why would you go with the least balanced interpretation?

 

[DracoSuave]

And what the rules say is extremely muddy. When that's the case, why would you go with the least balanced interpretation?

Well, if you want to get technical, there are very few actual modifiers to weapon damage in the game, but also, there are few modifiers to Scimitar Dance damage either.

Regardless, if you're a Wintertouched/Lasting Frost build, then the thing to remember with Hammer Rhythm/Scimitar Dance is that yes, you deal 5 extra damage with the miss...

...but you don't have combat advantage OR the vulnerability on that enemy -next- turn. In the end, it's just five extra damage. Not even per turn, just five extra damage total.

 

[Nifft]

Items powers are treated in the exact same manner as any other power you have.

Since item powers follow the same rules as all your other powers you do what the power tell you. If it say when you attack with this then weapon then it works as a weapon or an implement. If it say when you make a melee attack then it only works when you make a melee attack.

Hmm. My arguments against frost-cheese working with Implement powers date back to when that exploit was first discovered, and it seemed like they were patching the rules to negate it -- but now it sure looks like they're patching the rules to encourage it.

Frost Dagger Sorcerer, here I come.

Thanks, -- N

 

[Iron Sky]

Long Night Scion (Warlock PP) Level 11 Feature ?

Ok, another question that came up during our last game (now that the Frost+Scimitar Dance thing seems to be somewhat resolved as an affirmative):

The Long Night Scion PP has the following level 11 feature:

"When you spend an action point, make an attack that has the cold keyword. The damage of that attack ignores cold resistance, blah, blah, blah."

The first line is what interests me since it came up in our game. Our warlock used a standard action, used an action point, then made two more standard action attacks - the first of which was an attack with the cold keyword.

Reasoning? On spending an action point, it simply says "make an attack that has the cold keyword", it doesn't say anything about that attack using up the warlock's AP-granted standard action.

As another example, would it be valid if the warlock used a standard action, then a move action, then spent an action point to move again and then gets a free attack with a cold power?

 

[Nifft]

Reasoning? On spending an action point, it simply says "make an attack that has the cold keyword", it doesn't say anything about that attack using up the warlock's AP-granted standard action.

I think that's exactly what the first clause means -- "WHEN you spend an action point".

Otherwise, what limits the benefit from lingering for the whole encounter?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Tale]

Where is this Long Night Scion PP? That seems incredibly poorly worded and due errata.

Usually they say something along the lines of "when you use an action point, you can also make X action." Such as the Planeshifter PP allowing them to also make a move action as a teleport. And if it's not a free additional action, it should say "if you use this action to make an attack with the cold keyword, blah blah."

 

[Iron Sky]

Where is this Long Night Scion PP? That seems incredibly poorly worded and due errata.

Dragon #374

As for the wording, I'm seeing that pretty much all the other ones that give you bonus on spending an action point say "When you spend an action point to take an extra action, <insert effect here>."

Since that is missing, it makes sense that you have to use the action point to use a cold power.

 

[DracoSuave]

Hmm. My arguments against frost-cheese working with Implement powers date back to when that exploit was first discovered, and it seemed like they were patching the rules to negate it -- but now it sure looks like they're patching the rules to encourage it.

Frost Dagger Sorcerer, here I come.

Thanks, -- N

Frost cheese was always meant to work with Implement powers.

In the PHB, how many weapon powers have the cold keyword? Zero.

How many cold powers have the implement keyword? All of them.

It was Frost weapons and keyword inheritance that changed the dynamic from what was intended.

Allowing Implement users access to their -own- cheese isn't exactly unfair.

 

[Destil]

I think he means using an implement to switch your attacks to cold...