D&D 5E Selecting the Simplest Sorcerer Solution

[Corwin]

Perhaps it's a flaw of resource based classes, They're good at high levels and weak at early levels. I guess you feel it's a problem with ones perception? Where i feel it's a design flaw of the resource class.

Having seen a fair share of sorcerers in action, from first level up through the teens, I just don't see the problem. They seem to play just fine. I rarely see them run out of resources completely by day's end. And when they have, the rest of the group was in equally dire straights.

 

[Krachek]

I like where you are going with this. Here's my suggestions.

1. For spells known, to me, the problem is at higher levels. Adding +Cha to spells known seems like it overpowers the class at 1st level, making it even more attractive for a multiclass splash. Instead, I'd just give the sorc 1 new spell at every single level, instead of going to every-other-level after 10th. I could see an argument for giving them +1 spell at 1st level, too, so that their spell chart goes from 3 spells at 1st to 22 spells at 20th. That's still the fewest spells known/prepped of any full-caster, but at least it's in the same ballpark.

2. For sorcery points, I favor a varaint of option C. I don't think it fails criteria 3 at all; quite the opposite. And I don't think you need to fail it on criteria 1, either, since it's much easier to explain than Arcane Recovery or Natural Recovery. Here's my proposal: "You regain all spent sorcery points when you finish a long rest, and half your spent sorcery points when you finish a short rest." Note that it's half your spent points, so you recover more if you've spent more -- encouraging players to use 'em or lose 'em. A character who burns through all their points all the time and gets multiple short rests in may come out ahead of a wizard or druid's recovery in terms of spell slots regained, but this seems like an edge case. I really like the flavor of this proposal: the sorcerer is resting, so they get back some spent points, makes sense to me.

However, I'm still not convinced that the number of sorcery points is the problem. To me, the worse problem is the selection of metamagic; some of the metamagics are way better than others. For starters, the weaker options -- Distant, Extended, Subtle -- should just be given to all sorcerers, for free. I'm not sure what else could be done here. I'd almost be OK with giving all sorcerers all the listed metamagics for free, and let them use their metamagic picks to learn more exotic tricks (like energy substitution, delayed-trigger spells, spontaneous casting of spells they don't know, etc. -- I might make Twinned one of the exotic metamagics, too). That's a much heavier-weight change; more of an Unearthed Arcana class rewrite, than something you can punch in as a house rule.

A single new metamagic may address both problems:
Spontaneous Casting. You may expend a spell slot to cast any spell from the sorcerer list of the slot's spell level or lower, even if it's not one of your spells known. This costs 1 sorcery point per level of the spell slot you are expending.

That would allow people who are dissatisfied with the sorcerer's limited number of known spells to burn sorcery points to whip out some really flexible spellcasting, without impacting the balance of the game much at all.

I like your idea for picking any meta magic. I would just increase the cost by one.
You can use any meta magic you have not master yet by spending its normal cost plus one additional sorcery point.
With the Spontaneous casting sorcerer would be ready for everything.
If a DM don't want to change the official rule, theses features can be given through a magic item.

 

[Eric V]

If you don't feel my contributions to this thread are of any value, why do you continue to respond to me?

I'm sorry. I don't mean to give the impression that I think your contributions have any value. I am actually curious why someone who doesn't think sorcerers are in need of a solution is in a thread where that is the premise. It's like you're on a crusade, or something. It's bizarre.

No, seriously: Considering the thread's title and purpose, why are you participating in it?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I think establishing the baseline of what proportion of the time a Sorceror should be using spell slots rather than cantrips, and what proportion of those spells should be able to be boosted with metamagic would be useful.

If we use the 'standard' adventuring day, with the understanding that reducing the encounters is going to allow greater power. - I think the Sorceror is one of the most nova-capable classes with its two separate-but-interacting resource systems.

If some people are used to rationing spell slots and metamagic, transferring between one and the other when required and filling in with cantrips then they are going to have different opinions to what the sorcerer requires than people who are used to throwing out metamagicked spells every round.

 

[Rynic]

Me again.

Let me give you all an example of the cluster- that is the Sorcerer's metamagic.

Distant Spell:

When you cast a spell that has a range of 5 feet or
greater, you can spend 1 sorcery point to double the
range of the spell.
When you cast a spell that has a range of touch, you
can spend 1 sorcery point to make the range of the
spell 30 feet.

Take note, dear reader, unlike twinned spell it makes no mention of not having a range of self, which can be confusing. Spells with a range of self can also have an extra range (Color Spray, Detect Magic, Detect thoughts)

This range can be doubled. Now, take the Gust of Wind spell. It has a range of self. It has an additional range, but wait there's more, it also has a width, which also becomes doubled. That's 120ft out 20ft wide, and as a bonus action it can be moved.

Nowhere does it suggest you can do this. It has to be found.

Other classes have much easier mechanics.

 

[famousringo]

Me again.

Let me give you all an example of the cluster- that is the Sorcerer's metamagic.

Distant Spell:

When you cast a spell that has a range of 5 feet or
greater, you can spend 1 sorcery point to double the
range of the spell.
When you cast a spell that has a range of touch, you
can spend 1 sorcery point to make the range of the
spell 30 feet.

Take note, dear reader, unlike twinned spell it makes no mention of not having a range of self, which can be confusing. Spells with a range of self can also have an extra range (Color Spray, Detect Magic, Detect thoughts)

This range can be doubled. Now, take the Gust of Wind spell. It has a range of self. It has an additional range, but wait there's more, it also has a width, which also becomes doubled. That's 120ft out 20ft wide, and as a bonus action it can be moved.

Nowhere does it suggest you can do this. It has to be found.

Other classes have much easier mechanics.

You're taking a pretty liberal reading of that ability there.

Even if you take for granted that they actually mean "touch or self" when they only say "touch" (and I wouldn't), there's a difference between the range of a spell and the area of the spell. Giving Detect Magic a 30' range doesn't let you see magic in a 60' radius, it lets a target within 30' sense magic in a 30' radius.

In the same way, Distant Spell allows you to cast a Fireball with an epicentre 300 feet away, not a Fireball with a 40 foot radius.

Edit: But it is weird how one dimension of Gust of Wind's area is described as a subset of the spell's range, and I do agree with your general point that being an effective sorcerer requires more system mastery than other casters.

 

[Cognomen's Cassowary]

Man, I wish distant spell worked that way.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Distant Spell:

When you cast a spell that has a range of 5 feet or
greater, you can spend 1 sorcery point to double the
range of the spell.
When you cast a spell that has a range of touch, you
can spend 1 sorcery point to make the range of the
spell 30 feet.

Take note, dear reader, unlike twinned spell it makes no mention of not having a range of self, which can be confusing. Spells with a range of self can also have an extra range (Color Spray, Detect Magic, Detect thoughts)

This range can be doubled. Now, take the Gust of Wind spell. It has a range of self. It has an additional range, but wait there's more, it also has a width, which also becomes doubled. That's 120ft out 20ft wide, and as a bonus action it can be moved.

Nowhere does it suggest you can do this. It has to be found.

Speaking as a DM, I would say:

(1) It doesn't suggest so because you can't do that. Distant Spell doesn't increase AoE at all.

(2) Your larger point is well-taken. Many of the best sorcerer metamagic combos (like Extended Aura of Vitality and Careful Web/Stinking Cloud) are not obvious on first inspection and may require extensive planning to fully exploit.

 

[mellored]

I would reduce the number of sorcery points needed for the less used ones, like extended, and not do anything that wil boost the already powerful twin greater invisibility.

This, IMO, is the issue with the sorcerer in general. They have lots of power, but it's all tied up in a few combos. They are left with more "trap" options than any other class. You can just grab whatever sounds cool and have it more or less work

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I would reduce the number of sorcery points needed for the less used ones, like extended, and not do anything that wil boost the already powerful twin greater invisibility.

This, IMO, is the issue with the sorcerer in general. They have lots of power, but it's all tied up in a few combos. They are left with more "trap" options than any other class. You can just grab whatever sounds cool and have it more or less work

Extended is already just one point. Reducing the cost any further doesn't help much.

It would be better-served by relaxing some of the restrictions on it. Currently it only works on spells with a duration of at least one minute but less than twenty-four hours. There just aren't many spells on the sorcerer list where that is helpful. It does make Enhance Ability somewhat more efficient, and removes some of the time pressure from a pre-cast Animate Objects (gives more time to fly your objects into position before the penny drops), but if you thought you could Extend a Shield spell to get double mileage out of it: sorry, wrong! How about an Extended Shapechange? Sorry, Sorcerers don't get that spell! (Ditto Foresight.) Extended Animate Dead? Sorcerers don't know it, and it doesn't extend durations past twenty-four hours anyway! Extended Blade Ward? Nope! Just like Shield, it doesn't last long enough.

Extended Blink? Sure, I guess, if you think the fight's going to last that long.

Currently the best use of Extended Spell is for doubling the healing you can get out of Aura of Vitality or Vampiric Touch. Both uses require multiclassing.

But if you allow Extended Spell to work on spells of less than one minute in duration, then things like Extended Shield and Extended Blade Ward become somewhat interesting.