Sexism in D&D and on ENWorld (now with SOLUTIONS!)

[kolikeos]

Without the traditional mediaeval roles for women in a campaign world some of the best epic literary tropes become illogical. The very unusualness of these women made their stories outstanding and compelling even for men:

Stories based on sexism can be interesting, but so can stories not based on sexism.
If we can come up with stories and tropes and roles and campaign worlds that are just as good but don't express sexism as the norm, I think that would be much better.

 

[Ariosto]

The Evony ads (and similar): Yeah. Roll eyes.

There is to me a big difference among contexts. I can consider as part (but not a decisive one) that women have produced some of the finest of what might be called "cheesecake" -- as in the old Weird Tales, or on the cover of Eldritch Wizardry. Is it worth noting that (e.g.) Tanith Lee is female? Sure.

I would include Samuel R. Delany's Tales of Nevèrÿon, though -- and other works by men -- in the category of things not to be castigated because they can appeal to prurient and even atavistic interests. Art must address the human condition as it is, even as it points to potentialities. There is a ground of mature seriousness in between the territories of the pornographic and the bowdlerized. There is the question of what the audience is expected to bring into relationship with the work.

 

[Ariosto]

I guess a worthwhile caveat is that most "porn" does not even work very well for me in terms of its own aims. The education of a palate certainly has much to do with the flavor of an offering.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Stories based on sexism can be interesting, but so can stories not based on sexism.

While not totally based on sexism, Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea books had a take on magic that included a difference between that practiced by men and that practiced by women. Besides sexism, it could be said that it also has to do with contrast, opposing or complementary forces, Yin and Yang, and all that.

When the miniseries popped up on Sci-Fi, this divide was done away with, and the Academy at Roke Island became a kind of Hogwarts-esqe school for both sexes.

In doing away with this, the miniseries lost a bit of the narrative tension inherent in the source material, and provided nothing to replace it.

(That wasn't the only flaw that popped up in this production, but its the only one germane to the current discussion.)

 

[Aus_Snow]

(That wasn't the only flaw that popped up in this production, but its the only one germane to the current discussion.)

Aye, certainly. Nor the most egregious, IMO.

/tj

 

[Bumbles]

I believe this says it best:

I can only admire Mr Halmi's imagination, but I wish he'd left mine alone.

 

[kibbitz]

Possibly, but it's hard to say without more context. For example, if all NPCs of note being male is common to the campaign world, then presumably that world (and/or the segment of it the PCs are involved with) is a patriarchal and sexist one. Conversely, if there's no in-game justification for it (and I think I've explained why I personally think explanations for in-game sexism aren't that great anyway) and you made the NPCs all male for no particular reason, and esp. if that's the norm in your adventures, then I think you're being a little sexist there.

But, as I noted, without more information it's hard to say.

I've been inactive for quite a while, so this was mostly in the past. Back then, pretty much every NPC was male because it never occurred to me to make a female NPC. I suppose if I were to make adventures now, I'd include some, but I don't see this working either out if I have to do equal representation. That sounds very artificial and without good reasons, I'd rather randomly assign gender instead.

 

[Imban]

While I use the male pronoun for anyone who I don't care about the gender of, I'm vaguely sure that the gender balance of actual NPCs in my campaign worlds is pretty equitable. This is probably easier to handle as a writer or programmer, however, simply because you have the time to think about what you're writing (and in the latter case, get the computer to force a gender balance on mooks), not just issue a quick "He is cleaved in twain!" or "The orc is fried to a crisp!" or, if nothing comes to mind instantly, the good old standby of "It dies!"

As far as PCs, I'm generally not in favor of gender-based restrictions, even when they make sense to me (i.e. from a demographic standpoint, probably near 100% of vaguely-humanoid Hulking Hurlers and War Hulks are male, just as near 100% of Healers are female), because PCs are exceptional and exceptions can be fun sometimes.

Most of my settings I'd like to think are fairly egalitarian, with the only one I can remember that wasn't being a major country in one setting which had the most powerful men and women being literally different races, men not existing at all in the women's power structure (due to it being impossible for a man to be a Priestess), and women being generally oppressed out of the men's power structure (due to good old discrimination). This wasn't a character-limiting issue for the players, though, because none of them were from this country.

(Gender issues also get confusing in general when polymorphing gets involved - one of the PCs in that campaign had three grandmothers and one grandfather in her backstory.)

 

[Ariosto]

Oh, that Sci-Fi Channel "Earthsea" was so wrong in so many ways that even morbid curiosity could not keep me going!

The recasting of the school as gender-egalitarian is a problem because it makes a hash of later stories (the poignant Tehanu, in particular). We have the Harry Potter books to explore different themes.

The recasting of the cast as white is just blatantly racist as far as I can see.

Getting the protagonist's names mixed up is pretty bad, considering the importance of True Names in general and of one in particular.

Worst of all is the changing of the character of characters, from the protagonist's aunt, to his rival at school, to -- most importantly of all -- himself. The whole meaning of the story gets shredded.

Nice and neat and comfortable does not necessarily make for a good story!

 

[Hussar]

Heh, now how's that for a bit of irony. I was just thinking of Ariosto and this thread when I read the following:

If one is inclined to seek social commentary in the two-part novel that begins the Barsoom series (as with the Tarzan series) on a relatively literary note, then what stands front and center is the depiction of organized religion as an evil con game.

A four-armed Green Martian, yea even a gorilla, is held up as nobler than the aristocrats of Western Civilization regardless of complexion.

I don't know about you, but I would much rather have Dejah Thoris or Thuvia -- or the Red Lensman, or any one of countless competent females of "pulp fiction" -- at my six than one of today's hothouse flowers preoccupied with sex and frail as a clothes-hanger.

Perhaps a bit of sexism is extent in the fans of our hobby no?