Sexism in D&D

[boredgremlin]

I would have no problem doing this if the setting or game was enhanced by it. Not everyone is playing to try and hook up with or impress the female gamers at the table. If she does not like the setting or the rules, she can leave. And I would expect the same in return if I were playing at her table.

No kidding.

Hell i have a wife and 2 daughters at home. I'm outnumbered there. Gaming is something I do to get away from women for a few hours and hang out with the guys.

Ever since i stopped trying to date through gaming I find i actually dont want women at the table. Since my wife no longer plays she just gives me grief about going if theres too many women at the table and the game runs late or I dont answer the phone when she texts.

My ideal gaming group at this point in life looks like a sports bar. Guys, beer, pizza and a friggin mess that no one gives a crap about.

 

[technoextreme]

Seriously though, this is a discussion based from the human / humanoid perspective. If you have something worthwhile to contribute, please join in.

No you can't moronically play the "humanoid" card when the games effectively include lizard people, dragon people, insect people, cat people, and a bunch of made of fantasy people. That and I would actually expect the Thri Keen to consist entirely almost of females if you actually knew anything about sexual dimorphism which aparently you don't.

 

[boredgremlin]

Nonsense. Absolute, unbearable nonsense. Check the pay discrepancies between men and women, the rates of sexual assault and then please, make your case then. The fact is, we have no idea what a 'genderless' Western Society looks like, because we've never seen one. Hypothesizing that this particular moment in time is what 'genderless' looks like makes as much sense as looking at the 18th century for what 'equality' looks like.

Fools love to point out the differences between the sexes or races or any other group and say, 'ah ha, we've obviously reached a Perfect Equal Society, and there are still differences!'

Then, five years later, all the gaps change.

Not relevant whatsoever.

Pay scale, not relevant. They have the job, thus the role. If anything pay scale would be their "level" at the role. So in game terms you could say they have an XP penalty.

Sexual assualt rates do more to prove the difference in STR then anything else. Sexual predators look for people they can physically hold down, intimidate and victimize.

We have a genderless society in effect. We have female cops, firefighters, soldiers, executives, CEO's, entrepreneurs and scientists.

The only jobs a man can do in our society that a woman cant are be on a submarine because they dont want to share a bathroom with men and space is at a premium on those and some combat arms jobs in the military. And thats because very few of them can walk 25 miles with 100 pounds of gear and then fight.

Furthermore, the O's administration is talking about doing away with even those 2 distinctions.

Your argument was based on feelings, not reality. Much like the rest of the arguments against including the option for a STR difference between genders.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I basically agree that it doesnt add to the game.

So the only possible reason to advocate it is to deny players of female characters the fun of playing certain types of characters to their full potential?

Personally I value people and good times over any gaming minutae including my precious campaign world.

 

[Tehnai]

You know, my biggest issue with the whole "Attribute modifiers for sex" thing isn't the fact that it's not politically correct. It is, in fact for the two following reasons:

1- It's a minor detail I really don't care about. I mean, it doesn't add or remove anything to the game at all. I won't have trouble playing having a character who has ridiculous STR, whatever his or her sex. See Brienne from A Song of Fire and Ice, she's a lady who can wrestle with the biggest, meanest dudes in the setting, and it's cool, and I've never seen anyone complain about the fact that she was biologically impossible.

2- It takes up space. Why bother with a 5-line detail about the char-op effect of choosing a character's sex. It's a waste of space, and honestly, if someone needs to use such a rule, they can house-rule it in about 0.3 seconds.

 

[technoextreme]

Pay scale, not relevant. They have the job, thus the role. If anything pay scale would be their "level" at the role. So in game terms you could say they have an XP penalty.

So what you are claiming is that a women who is fundamentally equal in every regards to a male is treated worst despite their being on equal footing is a genderless society.

 

[billd91]

Using your argument, then why not allow dragonborn or praying mantis females to have +2 strength compared to males. I see no issue with that. Then all the females at the table could play them and feel happy and strong.

Seriously though, this is a discussion based from the human / humanoid perspective. If you have something worthwhile to contribute, please join in.

There are games that do something substantial with gender differences. Check out the differences between male and female Aslan in Traveller some time. The differences are substantial. The point there, of course, is that this is a non-human culture. Players generally have to opt-in to play them rather than play the character race and sex they most identify with. That is where the influence of gender differences in the rules are their most troubling and will act as a barrier against women participating in the game.

 

[Dellamon]

No you can't moronically play the "humanoid" card when the games effectively include lizard people, dragon people, insect people, cat people, and a bunch of made of fantasy people. That and I would actually expect the Thri Keen to consist entirely almost of females if you actually knew anything about sexual dimorphism which aparently you don't.

It sounds to me like someone learned a new word today!

Actually, if you want to bring sexual dimorphism to the table, that is actually more of an argument for gender-based attribute bonuses than not. Lets give the Thri-Keen, Dragonborn, and Rockpeople all a +2 bonus to strength for females - everyone knows that those girls are stronger! To balance it out, we will allow for human and humanoid females to be slightly under-strength compared to their male counterparts. Because ..... well, its sexual dimorphism!

 

[JonWake]

Not relevant whatsoever.

Pay scale, not relevant. They have the job, thus the role. If anything pay scale would be their "level" at the role. So in game terms you could say they have an XP penalty.

A woman in the same job with the same experience typically makes 20% less than a man. I'd say that's pretty relevant to your argument that we live in a genderless society. But hey, I just have 40 years of statistical 'feelings'.

Here's what I don't get: why does anyone even care in D&D unless they have some sad, misogynistic ax to grind. F'rfuggsakes, flying dragons violate every law of aerodynamics, Giants should collapse under their mass, dwarves would have starved to death and elves would go extinct in a couple generations, and people are worried that ManSkull DeerSmasher might not be ManSkull enough?

 

[boredgremlin]

In reality, a man can't win a fistfight with a grown bear.

In D&D, it depends on the class and level of the man.

The moral of this (brief) story, before even thinking about encoding what you perceive to be the correct level of real-word gender differences in your D&D campaign, think of man vs. bear.

People spear hunted and bow hunted bears all the time.

In D&D no matter the edition you would have to be absurdly high level as anything but a monk, which is a silly ass class to win a fist fight with a bear.

Besides, you wouldnt deny that bear should have a higher STR score then the average man would you ?