Shades

[Dandu]

So, I noticed something interesting when revisiting the Shades spell. Namely, the fact that it goes:

"This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it mimics sorcerer and wizard conjuration spells of 8th level or lower. The illusory conjurations created deal four-fifths (80%) damage to nonbelievers, and nondamaging effects are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers."

This is interesting because both Shadow Conjuration and Greater Shadow Conjuration have these lines:

"Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower."

"This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it can duplicate any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 6th level or lower."

Shades, by virtue of not having that little restrictive clause, allows other kind of conjurations, such as conjuration (calling) spells, like Greater Planar Binding.

Normally, the problem with Planar Binding is that something might seek revenge later. A creature made of shadowstuff, however, goes to nothingness when the spell expires and will not be able to retaliate.

This opens up some very interesting possibilities.

 

[SuperJebba]

Would the shades last long enough to cast that spell with its 10 minute casting time?

 

[Dandu]

Shadow Conjuration takes a standard action to cast, and can duplicate summoning spells. Summon Monster spells take a full round action to cast. Using Shadow Conjuration to duplicate Summon Monster I seems like it would take a standard action.

Either that or you have to up the casting time (not specified in the spell description) or that use of the spell does not work due to the difference in casting times, which would severely limit the utility of the Shadow Conjuration spells.

 

[Alexander123]

It seems like it would work, although would you be considered a believer or non-believer? (reminds me of religion) I assume a non-believer since it's your illusion.

 

[Dandu]

Do we not all delude ourselves from time to time so that we may comfortably believe in illusions?

 

[Alexander123]

Spoken like a true poet.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Nah, just the shadow of one...

 

[Pergentile]

Is a "non-believer" someone who fails a save or check to realize it's just an illusion?
Also, since you know that the conjuration can and will deal REAL damage, even to someone who doesn't believe in it, I think that would be plenty to say that the one doing the conjuring believes in what they are conjuring... yes?

 

[Dandu]

 

[Marius Delphus]

IMC the wording discrepancy identified by the OP is treated as an oversight (or, in a more positive light, "conjuration spells" is read as a foreshortening of "conjuration (summoning) and conjuration (creation) spells), and shades is restricted to the same subschools the other two spells are. (The same wording appears to be present in the Pathfinder version of the spell, so there's no real illumination of the issue from that direction.)

But this reading neatly eliminates the identified problems. Just a different POV.