D&D (2024) Sharp shooter/Great Weapon Mastery

[Kannik]

The party is exploring an old ruin, with traps and such. No monsters, no combat. It is a pure skill crawl and exploration. Is it really a problem if they can cast Guidance any time they fail to try and succeed?

If this happens, the party effectively has +12.5% chance of success on everything. So all challenges are less challenging; might as well just revise the DC table and remove the spell. Or, if the DM wants to keep the challenge as intended, they can bump all the DCs by 2; once again, might as well just remove the spell as it does nothing except create a lot of extra tabletop chatter and perhaps upset expectations.

On the whole, choices are good in an RPG for they are what make the game a game and makes it interesting and memorable. When +2.5 all day, every day, on (nearly) everything is possible, it reduces both choices and the challenge (including the potentially interesting results of a failure). Putting limits on a cantrip may be somewhat counter to the idea of most other cantrips, so perhaps guidance needs to be folded into something more akin to a leveled spell like Bless for a more limited and choice-based thing. But keeping it as a cantrip as a straight bonus to skill rolls I say it needs limits to work best for the game and gameplay.

 

[Bill Zebub]

If this happens, the party effectively has +12.5% chance of success on everything. So all challenges are less challenging; might as well just revise the DC table and remove the spell. Or, if the DM wants to keep the challenge as intended, they can bump all the DCs by 2; once again, might as well just remove the spell as it does nothing except create a lot of extra tabletop chatter and perhaps upset expectations.

On the whole, choices are good in an RPG for they are what make the game a game and makes it interesting and memorable. When +2.5 all day, every day, on (nearly) everything is possible, it reduces both choices and the challenge (including the potentially interesting results of a failure). Putting limits on a cantrip may be somewhat counter to the idea of most other cantrips, so perhaps guidance needs to be folded into something more akin to a leveled spell like Bless for a more limited and choice-based thing. But keeping it as a cantrip as a straight bonus to skill rolls I say it needs limits to work best for the game and gameplay.

Yeah, this.

If there aren't any interesting choices to make, and the players who say "I cast guidance!" all the time are rewarded simply for remembering to do that, it's a bad spell.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Or heck, just make it a cleric ability (proficiency times per day) instead of a cantrip tax.

That would be better than a spammable cantrip.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

See, this is what I don't get. How is "once day, maybe turn a failed skill check into a success, if the caster is in range" still one of the best cantrips, compared to the many many incredibly good cantrips?

You can potentially turn a failure into success. You are free to pick any of a number of other cantrips that let you do that.

The party is exploring an old ruin, with traps and such. No monsters, no combat. It is a pure skill crawl and exploration. Is it really a problem if they can cast Guidance any time they fail to try and succeed?

Yes. Someone constantly shouting 'I cast Guidance' is a waste of gaming time, and nothing about spam-Guidance is interesting gameplay. It makes any session worse if it's used as it makes sense to use, which is all the time.

It is the only participation some people have with the adventure in question, so are we running into a problem to allow them to do it? And if we are, is the solution "nerf it until it isn't a problem" or is the solution to try and make other options for them to utilize?

I would rather we give the players something meaningful to do, something that requires a human behind the wheel. That most RPGs encourage only the one expert in the party doing everything, is a design flaw, but this one cantrip only makes it worse. It is still only the one expert for that skill doing anything, only now, instead of this cantrip-owner maybe thinking of a way to contribute, he will only ever shout 'I cast Guidance' over and over, and we have reduced their potential contribution to anything a bot triggered by hearing 'roll' could do.

 

[Remathilis]

Agree with all of this. The thing is, it’s too weak to be a first level spell. Maybe it should just go away.

It can join True Strike and Blade Ward in the "looks good on paper, does nothing in practice." While you're at it, toss Spare the Dying in that pile too.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It can join True Strike and Blade Ward in the "looks good on paper, does nothing in practice." While you're at it, toss Spare the Dying in that pile too.

I don't know I think spare the dying could do for a little upgrade but only a little.

 

[Horwath]

It's not useless. It's like a minor Bardic Inspiration that you get to give to failed ability checks once per day per person. It's pretty useful still.

I get that guidance needed to be nerfed because if it's endless spam.

But once per day per target is horrible.

if it was a number of times per day equal to prof modifier, then it would be in consideration to spend a cantrip slot.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

if it was a number of times per day equal to prof modifier, then it would be in consideration to spend a cantrip slot.

Then it would be weaker in a lot of parties in levels 1 to 8...

 

[Horwath]

Then it would be weaker in a lot of parties in levels 1 to 8...

I meant per day per target

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I meant per day per target

That would be a LOT of tracking.