D&D (2024) Should sorcerers and warlocks get their spell list from their subclass?

[Neonchameleon]

I actually like the "partial arcane core plus additions from their subclass spell list" that e.g. divine, clockwork, and aberrant mind sorcerers (and most warlocks) get. But that kinda gets in the way of the One D&D spell list homogeneity.

Dragon Soul on the other hand I want to just have the arcane core ... and actually be able to hang out in the melee line

 

[MechaTarrasque]

If they are handing out 3rd subclasses (instead of just giving wizards 9 subclasses again), I suspect ancestral guardian for barbarian, college of eloquence for bard, circle of the shepherd for druids, gloomstalker for ranger, and shadow for sorcerer, since all those are somewhat different than the PHB subclasses.

 

[Haplo781]

It's 48, 4 per class.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

It is almost certain that they will include all the 2014 PHB subclasses in the new version, since they are including the same classes and, based on the playtest document, the same spells. That is 2 barbarian subclasses, 2 bard subclasses, 7 cleric subclasses, 2 druid subclasses, 3 fighter subclasses, 3 monk subclasses, 3 paladin subclasses, 2 ranger subclasses, 3 rogue subclasses, 2 sorcerer subclasses, 3 warlock subclasses, and 8 wizard subclasses for a total of 40. That leaves 8 to go.

 

[Haplo781]

It is almost certain that they will include all the 2014 PHB subclasses in the new version, since they are including the same classes and, based on the playtest document, the same spells. That is 2 barbarian subclasses, 2 bard subclasses, 7 cleric subclasses, 2 druid subclasses, 3 fighter subclasses, 3 monk subclasses, 3 paladin subclasses, 2 ranger subclasses, 3 rogue subclasses, 2 sorcerer subclasses, 3 warlock subclasses, and 8 wizard subclasses for a total of 40. That leaves 8 to go.

They said 4 per class.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

It is almost certain that they will include all the 2014 PHB subclasses in the new version, since they are including the same classes and, based on the playtest document, the same spells. That is 2 barbarian subclasses, 2 bard subclasses, 7 cleric subclasses, 2 druid subclasses, 3 fighter subclasses, 3 monk subclasses, 3 paladin subclasses, 2 ranger subclasses, 3 rogue subclasses, 2 sorcerer subclasses, 3 warlock subclasses, and 8 wizard subclasses for a total of 40. That leaves 8 to go.

I'd kind of like wizard schools and cleric domains to be 'pact boon' like options. And then subclasses are the real big changes in playstyle.

Heavily reduces subclass bloat while freeing up the subclasses to be more impactful gameplaywise.

 

[Vael]

Given that Subclass progression has apparently been standardized, so Warlocks and Sorcerers won't pick their subclass until 3rd level ... I think not.

 

[Gorck]

Given that Subclass progression has apparently been standardized, so Warlocks and Sorcerers won't pick their subclass until 3rd level ... I think not.

We don't know that for sure. The subclasses might be standardized by Class Group for all we know. That would mean Sorcerers and Warlocks might still get theirs at level 1, while Wizards would be pushed up a level from Level 2, if the Mage Group is standardized differently from the Expert Group.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

We don't know that for sure. The subclasses might be standardized by Class Group for all we know. That would mean Sorcerers and Warlocks might still get theirs at level 1, while Wizards would be pushed up a level from Level 2, if the Mage Group is standardized differently from the Expert Group.

Yeah this is a really good point.

Making wild assumptions about subclass standardization on the limited evidence we have is not a good idea. WotC have said they like the idea of people getting subclasses at L1. The main reason it seems that Experts have it at L3 is all those classes get their subclass at L3, so they avoid incompatibility.

Right now, Sorcerers and Warlocks get their subclass at L1. To move it to L3 would introduce incompatibility! Unnecessarily too. Wizards are likely to have a more drastic subclass change, I suspect, especially as they're going down to 4 PHB subclasses and the changes to spell prep for people like Bards mean they're likely to be largely incompatible with the (honestly mostly boring) existing Wizard subclasses. So they may well either go down to 1 or up to 3. I suspect we'll see something like Bladesinger and three "more serious" takes on school specializations (Evoker, Illusionist, Diviner would be my guess).

 

[DEFCON 1]

If we follow the progressions in the 2014 book and just make three small adjustments, then everything works out... such that Experts and Warriors get their subclasses at Level 3... while Priests and Mages get their subclasses at Level 1.

The Druid and Wizard get their subclass bumped up from Level 2 to 1, and the Paladin is the only one who needs to go from Level 3 to 1. Cleric, Sorcerer, and Warlock we already Level 1 and can stay there. And the Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Bard, Ranger, and Rogue were all Level 3 and will probably stick with Level 3.

If I had to make a guess... this could very well be a set-up for the return of the potential "Class group" subclass idea-- subclasses that could be taken by any class in a class group. So a subclass that all Warriors could take for example.