Should you be able to dodge a fireball by readying an action?

[RangerWickett]

For the record, I would allow a character to attempt to shoot down a fireball bead, but I would require them to make the spellcraft check to identify the fireball as it's being cast so they can loose the attack the instant the bead appeared.

A fireball would also be a hard target to hit. Fine size is 3-6 inches, Fine- is 1.5-3 inches, Fine-- is 0.75-1.5 inches, and Fine--- is 0.375-0.75 inches. Fireball is described as a "pea-sized bead". I'd put it at Fine--- or Fine---- size, which gives it a base AC of 74 or 138. In other words: yes, you can attempt to fire at it. You'll need a natural 20 to hit a target that small, however.

Are there actual rules for things smaller than fine? I mean, at a certain point it doesn't matter if something gets smaller. The arrowhead is bigger than the target, so it just has to get 'near' it.

I'd say AC 26. Twice as hard as hitting a fly.

Of course, then there's the whole sticky question of when my arrow hits, and when the fireball explodes.

 

[Zurai]

Of course, then there's the whole sticky question of when my arrow hits, and when the fireball explodes.

That's the purpose of the Spellcraft check. Made the Spellcraft check? Your arrow (if it hits) gets there right as the bead appears. Failed the check? By the time you realize that Fireball has been cast, the bead is already streaking towards you and it's too late now.

 

[mvincent]

The size bonus/penalties to AC double with every step <shrug> 3E doesn't actually have rules for creatures/objects smaller than Fine or larger than Collossal, I don't think.

Colossal+ dragons exist (here), and their size modifier to AC is still -8.

This is all in House Rule territory anyway, so it really only exists as a justification for "you need to roll a natural 20 or be a high Epic character to hit it".

Telling your players that not even Epic swordsmen can reliably hit a pea size object might make them question your reasoning. While I understand the mathematical reasoning behind your extrapolation, the actual result is not viable.

 

[Nifft]

... split pea soup would be exceeding hard to make, even at epic levels...

Fortunately, most peas are helpless, and thus subject to a soup de grace attack.

Cheers, -- N

 

[mvincent]

Fortunately, most peas are helpless, and thus subject to a soup de grace attack.

Well played.

Kudos.

 

[RangerWickett]

Fortunately, most peas are helpless, and thus subject to a soup de grace attack.

Cheers, -- N

That pun was souper.

 

[blargney the second]

Fortunately, most peas are helpless, and thus subject to a soup de grace attack.

Bwahahahaha!

Beware the awakened pea.

 

[Zurai]

Telling your players that not even Epic swordsmen can reliably hit a pea size object might make them question your reasoning. While I understand the mathematical reasoning behind your extrapolation, the actual result is not viable.

Sure, it's viable. Hitting something the size of a pea with an attack launched before the object even exists defines epic. And I'll thank you not to speak for my players. They're quite vocal enough without advocates.

 

[Zurai]

Not to mention that AC 74 is hittable pre-epic.

Level 20 fighter = 20 BAB
26 strength (16 base + 4 from levels + 6 from item) = +8 to hit
+5 weapon = +5 to hit
Greater Weapon Focus = +2 to hit
Melee Weapon Mastery = +2 to hit
Inspire Courage = +7 to hit
True Strike = +20 to hit

Total attack bonus: 64

That's a 55% chance to hit AC 74, and I'm not even using all possible pre-epic bonuses. There's still all kinds of buffs that can be added.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Remember:
1/ I can't move until he attacks me.
2/ He can't attack me until the spell is complete.
3/ You're saying he can't have completed the spell until after I move.

IMHO your interpretation does not resolve this simultaneity issue.

You can only trigger a ready action off something you can perceive.

I can't tell someone "Think of a number" and ready an action to attack them if the number they think of is 7.

So while you can trigger a ready action off "He casts Fireball" - which you can determine with a spellcraft check before the action is complete - you can't trigger a ready action off a specific point of origin, because by the time the point of origin is determined, the spell has already come into effect. It's too late.

It's not a simultaneity issue - it's a go-back-in-time issue, just like triggering a ready action off being struck for 10 points of damage. By the time you know the hit dealt 10 points of damage... you've taken 10 points of damage, and triggering your ready action to occur before that requires time travel.

-Hyp.