Should you be able to dodge a fireball by readying an action?

[irdeggman]

So what you're saying is, I should ready an action to move when the fireball explodes. That way my movement occurs just before the fireball can hurt me. Ah, good. Thank you!

But that won't work.

You ready based on an action that triggers, not on a condition or effect.

A fireball exploding is not an action. A wizard casting a spell is an action, a wizard using a wand is an action, etc.

This is like saying that you want to take your readied action prior to the damge being dealt by the sword that is hitting you instead of when the opponet attacks - which has the readied action go off just before the attack (and interupts it).

There are some "special" things that will allow you to use a readied action (or equivalent) for when recieving damage - but those are unique and specifically spelled out in the action that they pertain too. It is not a general rule.

IMO you should be able to ready a move for when the wizard casts a spell. So when he starts to cast his spell you can indeed move. You can not however move after he has cast and before the result is ejudicated.

As Hyp pointed out though, all effects and details of a spell are resolved when the spell comes into effect - not when it is cast. This will in general keep you from being able to sidestep a spell per the RAW.

 

[frankthedm]

How much resolution does one allow with the triggering condition?

To me it looks like ready leaves that up to the DM's judgement

Could you ready "I ready an action to move if the ogre attacks me and hits", to distinguish it from "the ogre attacks me but misses"?

I'd say sure, though to be perfecly clear, I'd also say the hit and the damage dealt by the hit are at the same time. So if your ready triggers when the hit lands, you have already taken the damage, when your ready triggers.

 

[Nifft]

I don't.

You ready against a melee attack; before the attack occurs, your action triggers. If he can no longer make that attack, the action is wasted.

You ready against a ranged attack; before the attack occurs, your action triggers. If he can no longer make that attack, the action is wasted.

But he not forced to swing his club where you were but are no longer, just as he's not forced to throw his javelin where you were but are no longer.

In neither case does he 'get the action back'.

Gotcha. Okay, the action is wasted in both cases, but you think he gets to keep his javelin. That's a minor difference in the scheme of things. We're mostly agreed. IMHO, allowing him to keep the javelin complicates things though...

Well, that's what "You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect" says. You throw Wall of Stone in front of the wizard, and then the spell comes into effect and he makes all pertinent decisions about it.

I can certainly see where you're coming from. I guess I've just got an aversion to time-travel. It seems bad that a reaction can change its triggering condition such that the condition never occurs. It's a bit unfair to non-spellcasters (who lose their attack) vs. spellcasters (who can just re-target).

What about spells that are attacks, such as scorching ray? Can I re-choose my target for that, or is it more like the javelin?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

You ready based on an action that triggers, not on a condition or effect.

Actually, no. You ready based on a condition, which can be the result of another character's action.

But if we can't even agree about how triggering actions work (which is IMHO a simpler case), the more general case seems hopeless. :\

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

What about spells that are attacks, such as scorching ray? Can I re-choose my target for that, or is it more like the javelin?

You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.

Until the spell comes into effect, where the spell will be aimed has not been determined. Once where the spell will be aimed has been determined, it has already either hit or missed, since the spell has come into effect.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.

Until the spell comes into effect, where the spell will be aimed has not been determined. Once where the spell will be aimed has been determined, it has already either hit or missed, since the spell has come into effect.

So, if I ready an action to move if Sorcerer Bob attacks me, and Sorcerer Bob casts scorching ray, what happens?

1/ Spell comes into effect, all decisions come into effect. Bob targets me.
2/ Bob declares an attack on me.
3/ My readied action goes off.

... ?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mistwell]

But the caster determines the location of the spell when it comes into effect.

He's going to aim for you... but if you move before he finishes activating the wand, he's still going to aim for you where you are at the time.

The location is determined when the spell comes into effect, so if you move before the location is determined, it's no help, and if you move after the location is determined, it's too late.

-Hyp.

Unless you move to a location that blocks line of sight or effect?

 

[mvincent]

Until the spell comes into effect, where the spell will be aimed has not been determined. Once where the spell will be aimed has been determined, it has already either hit or missed, since the spell has come into effect.

Can't the same be said for regular ranged attacks (i.e. they are instantaneous)? Yet we could still make decisions (even without a readied action) after they are thrown on whether to say, snatch or deflect them.

I think the ready action is simply subject to a lot of interpretation and DM adjudication, which could (and probably should) be affected by the fluff/description of certain spells.

 

[Mistwell]

But that won't work.

You ready based on an action that triggers, not on a condition or effect.

"specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it."

The thing that triggers YOUR action is a condition, not necessarily an action.

 

[brehobit]

I'd go with +2 to the save and grant evasion.

Mark