Skill increasing feats worth it?

[Spatzimaus]

No, they're not worth it in 99% of cases.

The others have pointed out the few situations where they might be desirable, but frankly there won't usually be any reasons for most people to want them. Most classes only get 7 Feats in their entire non-Epic careers, it seems a real waste to take a Feat that has LESS effect than 4 skill points.

There's one other situation where skill-boosting Feats are useful: when it's not a class skill. But again, buying a cheapo magic item is a far better option.

The big problem, IMO, is that unlike most Feats, Skill Focus doesn't give you any ability that skill points and/or simple magical items don't duplicate. Why spend a Feat on Skill Focus if you can spend a few thousand gp on a trinket that gives a +5 bonus? Feats are supposed to be special, the sort of thing that separates the heroes from the mere mortals.

***HOUSE RULE***
IMC, in 3E we had Skill Focus give two benefits:
1> If you rolled a 5 or less on a skill check you could choose to re-roll; the second roll stands, even if it's worse (on average, this adds 7.5*25% = 1.875 to your result). The more important effect was how it greatly reduced critical failures.
2> You could Take 10 with the skill, even under duress. Of course, with the ability above you might not want to.

(There was also a Greater Skill Focus, that among other things let you Take 20 even if the skill has a penalty for failure)

The idea was, it gave two benefits that you couldn't easily get in other ways, that didn't add a huge amount of power.

In 3.5E, replace the "5 or less" with "10 or less" and "7.5*25% = 1.875" with "5.0*50% = 2.5".
***/HOUSE RULE***

 

[DiFier]

I agree that skill boosting feats are sorta not worth it for a min maxed combat monster. they are a little more useful for regular charachters but still a little underpowered. they are great at first level but increasingly get less powerful as you go on.

That being said if you want to have a charachter who can figure out wheather someone is lying to them why not take skill focus sence motive.

There is more to feats than just making your charachter more of a killng machine. Now don't get me wrong I don't have any problem with killing machines. it just sometimes you take a feat becasue it fits the charachter rather than cause it gives the charachter the most bonuses.

 

[Wish]

I find them useful in a variety of circumstances, many of which have been mentioned by others upthread, so I won't repeat them. One that I didn't see mentioned, however, is for important cross class skills.

For example, if you want your fighter/barbarian to tumble, but don't want to mix in rogue and take the BAB/Fort hit, you might take skill focus - Tumble, instead.

Also worth noting, since it's somewhat on topic for this thread - Combat Casting is 75% useless in 3.5. Skill Focus - Concentration gives a +3 bonus to all checks, including to cast on the defensive. I suppose you could stack them, but if you need +7 to cast defensively from feats, you've got bigger problems. I didn't think CC was worth it in 3.0, but with Skill Focus bumped up, there's very little reason to take CC.

 

[Sanackranib]

it all depends on what you are trying to accompolish. elven cloak and boots offer a higher bonus but rely on magic as well as taking up slots and costing money. if you burn the feats that isn't the case but you burn precious feats:

example: I rolled up a rogue who was gonna be a pickpocket. the DC for pick pockets was 20 and I had an 18 DEX which ment I would still FAIL 60% of the time at 1st level. not great odds and that doesn't even include the chance that they notice the attempt.
to compensate I proposed a new feat called lightfingered which added a +2 bonus to pick pockets and open locks. If I were to take said feat (because nothing else but skill focus effected pick pockets) and skill focus I would raise my Pick pockets roll to 13. which I could take 10 in and make. the opposed roll is 23 high for a level 1 character but makeable. if the DM disallowed taking 10 on that check I would have 13 +1d20 to the roll, minimum 14 or only a 30% chance of failure since the minimum roll is 6 short of what is needed. for this type of character these would be much better odds. they don't cost any money and I could still use other equipment or magic items if I could get them to inhance my roll later.

so to address your question it all depends on how good you want to be at those 2 skills and how soon.

 

[Urbannen]

I use them when it's appropriate for a character concept. I am currently playing a Human Cleric 3 of Helm/Rogue 1 who is an inquisitor, err, information gathering agent for his church. His Gather Information check is +15 = 5 ranks rogue, 2 ranks cc cleric, +3 Cha, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Investigator.

The character is not min-maxed - his 3rd feat is Alertness. Since I am not a power-gamer I can live without the combat feats. I have found that having good Bluff, Sense Motive, and Diplomacy skills comes in surprisingly handy and gives me an edge in many situations.

I think it depends on the campaign. If the DM is scrupulous about using out-of-combat skill checks, then skill increasing feats can be very valuable. If not, you are probably better off getting combat feats or magical feats.

 

[Wippit Guud]

I found one really useful for my bard... magical aptitude, +2 spellcraft and +2 to his much-appreciated use magic device. I'll spend a feat that'll help me cast like 5 casters in addition to my own.

 

[billd91]

I use them when it's appropriate for a character concept. I am currently playing a Human Cleric 3 of Helm/Rogue 1 who is an inquisitor, err, information gathering agent for his church. His Gather Information check is +15 = 5 ranks rogue, 2 ranks cc cleric, +3 Cha, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Investigator.

The character is not min-maxed - his 3rd feat is Alertness. Since I am not a power-gamer I can live without the combat feats. I have found that having good Bluff, Sense Motive, and Diplomacy skills comes in surprisingly handy and gives me an edge in many situations.

Guess what? You're still approaching min-maxed for the role you choose to play. Min-Maxing and power gaming aren't for combat only.

Skill-boosting feats are good/bad depending on the kind of campaign you're playing in and the style of players. If it's a kick-in-the-door-kill-and-loot-monsters campaign, they're probably not that useful. If it's a more varied campaign, then yes, they can be pretty useful.

Keep in mind that as you rise in levels, your ranks will tend to outstrip any bonuses gained from these feats. However, if you're a little light on skill points, spending the feat may be worth it. Consider also the example of the Bard. Skill Focus (Perform) can help his countersinging and raises the DC on any Facination saves. It should also get him more money on a busy night of entertainment.

Skill bonus feats are helping my cleric of a smith god create masterwork items at a much lower level than I would otherwise be able to reliably. Not a bad deal for the campaign I'm in. Alertness might help a fighter get non-sucky spot and listen checks considering both are cross-class skills AND he has low skill points. Skill Focus (ride) would give a mounted knight an effective +3 to his mount's AC when trying to avoid an attack by using the Mounted Combat feat. Used in conjuction with Combat Casting, Skill Focus (concentration) nets you a +7(!) to a Concentration check to cast defensively and can be used for any other concentration check where Combat Casting doesn't apply.

The bonuses aren't bad and they increase the non-random part of the skill check, which is never a bad thing.

 

[Keith]

When the two skills are cross-class, and thus you are spending a feat instead of 8 skill points, I think it may be worth it. Otherwise…well, it is half as valuable, which is an eye-opener. Using a feat instead of 4 skill points? That does not seem like the best way to allow your character to develop and grow, really. Also, those types of feat don’t really add any idiosyncrasy to the character, which is the aspect of feats I like best. Having every Ranger-archer get multi-shot as a class skill is the opposite pole- way too idiosyncratic of an ability for me to want every ranger-archer I ever play to have it. Sorry, digression.

 

[billd91]

Using a feat instead of 4 skill points? That does not seem like the best way to allow your character to develop and grow, really.

It all depends on the kind of way you want the character to grow and how he fits into the campaign. This kind of development is more applicable for some kinds of campaigns than others.

 

[Thanee]

In general I think those skill focus feats are not worth it.

I'm usually struggling to decide upon my feats even without adding those into the mix!

The only reason to choose such a feat would be to boost a cross-class skill (class skills are good enough without), but even then, the cost hardly justifies the effect.

Bye
Thanee