D&D 5E Sneak Attack with spells?

[Mordhau]

3. It can't be easily and repeatedly combined with steady aim.

You're an arcane trickster. Why are you wasting your bonus action on aiming when you could be using your familiar to do the help action?

 

[ECMO3]

You're an arcane trickster. Why are you wasting your bonus action on aiming when you could be using your familiar to do the help action?

Numerous reasons:

1. Most familiars will die the first time they do this in battle.

2. All of them will die if they do this repeatedly in battle.

3. Any AOE will usually kill a familiar and if it is walking around with you it will rarely survive an adventuring day and cost 10gp, an hour and a spell slot every time you resummon it. It takes an action to call your familiar from its pocket plane. So assuming you are keeping it safe you will lose an action to summon it in combat.

4. Not all Arcane Tricksters have Find Familiar and if they do their spell selections are VERY limited. Also carrying around a brazier all the time can be difficult unless you have decent strength or a bag of holding.

Usually when I play a single-classed AT I get find familiar at third level, then I summon my familiar and promptly put him away and only let him out when I need him. At 4th level I keep the familiar but switch that spell slot out for something more useful that is not on the AT list like cause fear, shield or absorb elements.

The only time this is really a viable tactic all the time is on a Wizard multiclass that can bot summon a new familiar with a ritual during a short rest AND has the gold/incense to spare.

 

[Mordhau]

The familiar give you free advantage util it dies. If someone wastes an attack to target it, that's a win as well.

Multiclassing as a wizard is pretty much a win as well.

 

[ECMO3]

The familiar give you free advantage util it dies.

That is usually 1 turn if you use it for this

If someone wastes an attack to target it, that's a win as well.

It costs an AT a spell slot to summon it, so I would say being a win is debatable if this is all you get out of it. If all your familiar does is give 1 advantage and suck up 1 attack, then I would say it is a tradeoff. Another 1st level spell like Cause Fear or even Tasha's Laughter can do far better than just eliminating 1 attack.

To be clear I am not downing familiars, they have a wide range of uses and this is one and in the right circumstance it is a good one, but it is not something you can count on every fight.

 

[Mordhau]

That is usually 1 turn if you use it for this


It costs an AT a spell slot to summon it, so I would say being a win is debatable if this is all you get out of it. If all your familiar does is give 1 advantage and suck up 1 attack, then I would say it is a tradeoff. Another 1st level spell like Cause Fear or even Tasha's Laughter can do far better than just eliminating 1 attack.

To be clear I am not downing familiars, they have a wide range of uses and this is one and in the right circumstance it is a good one, but it is not something you can count on every fight.

1 turn is your experience, I have found it to be rarely attacked. I also think that picking up ritual casting for an Arcane Trickster is just a very good idea. Being able to save your spell slots is very useful. (Although less so if you have another wizard in the party I guess).

Find familiar also doesn't require you to have a good saving throw DC.

 

[Dausuul]

Sneak attack does not work with spells. Anyone who wants it to work with Toll of the Dead, Dancing Lights, or intense glares, go ahead. I think the OP was asking if the rules as written allow it.

The OP was seven years ago. I'm pretty sure Mouseferatu has got his answer by now.

 

[Maxperson]

There's no reason you have to. It might seem arbritraty, but this is D&D, arbritrary rules for balance purposes is the name of the game.

Honestly, I don't think allowing it with spells is a big deal anyway. Arcane Trickstrs just don't have that many spell slots.

But I'd probably want to do some playtesting of that to see how it went.

Maybe. 3-4 attack rolls, though, pretty much guarantees a hit to do sneak attack.

 

[Mordhau]

Maybe. 3-4 attack rolls, though, pretty much guarantees a hit to do sneak attack.

For a daily resource. It ought to be worth using.

And remember, you only do one sneak attack once, no matter how many times you hit.

Hit chances in 5e are already high, Advantage makes them even higher. You probably are doing sneak attack anyway. How often do rogues fail to hit at all in your games? In my experience the rogue either has Advantage, is dual wielding or both. They're not fighters with several attacks, they need to hit or they waste their turn. The game recognises that.

I think this is one of those things that sounds overpowered but probably really isn't in practice.

A vengeance paladin with their advantage thingy up and two attacks a round is pretty much guaranteed to do at least one Divine Smite, but we don't worry about that.

 

[ECMO3]

1 turn is your experience, I have found it to be rarely attacked. I also think that picking up ritual casting for an Arcane Trickster is just a very good idea. Being able to save your spell slots is very useful. (Although less so if you have another wizard in the party I guess).

Find familiar also doesn't require you to have a good saving throw DC.

You can't cast it as a ritual as an Arcane Trickster. Arcane Tricksters do not have the ritual casting feature. They need to use a spell slot every single time they cast find familiar or any other spell with the ritual tag. If your DM is not enforcing this that is a big difference.

If you are using it to cause advantage it must get to melee range and a smart enemy should attack it. A familiar should never last more than 2 turns for level 3 players if it is helping every turn. An Owl can do a bit better using flyby, as long as the enemy is not using an AOE or missile weapons.

If your experience is that your DM never fights smart, then that is different than my experience.

 

[Mordhau]

You can't cast it as a ritual as an Arcane Trickster. Arcane Tricksters do not have the ritual casting feature.

Obviously. I wouldn't have said it's a good idea to get it if they already had it now would I.

They need to use a spell slot every single time they cast find familiar or any other spell with the ritual tag. If your DM is not enforcing this that is a big difference.

If you are using it to cause advantage it must get to melee Range and a smart enemy will attack it. A familiar should never last more than 2 turns for level 3 players if it is helping every turn. An Owl can do a bit better due to flyby, as long as the enemy is not using an AOE or missile weapons.

If your experience is that your DM never fights smart, then that is different than my experience.

I think we're going to have to disagree. Other than passively agressively insulting my DM you are not putting forward anything new.