D&D 5E So, 5e OGL

[CapnZapp]

I'll put this simply. Can you or can you not play in a 3.x game with nothing but the SRD? Can you not run a 3.x game with nothing but the SRD? The answer to both of these questions is a resounding "yes." Are they exactly the same products? No. IIRC correctly, the only hurdle is the lack of XP tables for advancement, which can be solves by milestone leveling or just one person in the group with access (not even ownership) to a PHB.

It's trivially true that the SRD is competition to the PHB. I'm perfectly open to discussion on how much of a competitor it was (in which I think we'd be closer in agreement as I don't think it was a significant one at all), but actually arguing that the SRD wasn't a competitor to the PHB at all is pretty ludicrous. There are, after all, more than a handful of stories of people playing in games with only the SRD. Heck, in my 3.x one I started bringing a laptop with the hypertext SRD on it to look up rules and spells because it was that much faster than the books. Never once did I ever encounter a situation where what I wanted wasn't in the SRD and I had to go reference the book, XP tables excluded.

But that doesn't mean you skipped getting a PHB.

I got a PHB to start with. Once I knew the game I started to use the reference more and more.

Doesn't mean not getting a PHB was an option.

The reality is we need the PHB presented in many different forms.

 

[delericho]

If all you want is the Basic Rules and some extra races, classes, and spells, it works (though not as well as a PHB, which was my point). You can't publish that, but it's fine for home use. The SRD is miles ahead of the DM supplement for basic, IMHO.

Yep. My comment was more in reference to the 5e PHB not being "free online". As we know, it is, just not legally.

(There was also a sadface smiley which was sad both because the illegal PDFs exist and also because legal ones don't.)

 

[Remathilis]

But that doesn't mean you skipped getting a PHB.

I got a PHB to start with. Once I knew the game I started to use the reference more and more.

Doesn't mean not getting a PHB was an option.

The reality is we need the PHB presented in many different forms.

Out of a group of seven players, three of mine owned a Pathfinder core book. Two were GMs, one was a collector. The other four used either PFSRD, an app version of the PRD, or something similar. Why not? It was everything but the Golarion deities. Now, for 5e, they can't do that unless they only want a limited selection of subraces, subclasses, spells, and one feat.

 

[Mark CMG]

Out of a group of seven players, three of mine owned a Pathfinder core book. Two were GMs, one was a collector. The other four used either PFSRD, an app version of the PRD, or something similar.

It's never been typical for everyone in a group to own a game book. It's more typical that people share. Some of your group using the PFSRD doesn't equate to lost sales. I've even played and run games at conventions where the folks share the players handbook.

 

[TwoSix]

It's never been typical for everyone in a group to own a game book. It's more typical that people share. Some of your group using the PFSRD doesn't equate to lost sales. I've even played and run games at conventions where the folks share the players handbook.

I'll be honest, I would have bought a Pathfinder Core book and at least 2 or 3 other books if they weren't available on the PFSRD. Purely anecdotal and all, but I can't imagine I'm the only person out there like that.

 

[Mark CMG]

I'll be honest, I would have bought a Pathfinder Core book and at least 2 or 3 other books if they weren't available on the PFSRD. Purely anecdotal and all, but I can't imagine I'm the only person out there like that.

Well, there you go then. Direct competition. I stand corrected.

 

[BryonD]

I'll be honest, I would have bought a Pathfinder Core book and at least 2 or 3 other books if they weren't available on the PFSRD. Purely anecdotal and all, but I can't imagine I'm the only person out there like that.

Do you think the existence of the PFSRD may have led to games that in turn lead to people buying the core book?

There is a Neil Gaiman short essay on piracy somewhere out there. He said that a lot of his stuff was pirated in Russia (??) and then his sales went up nicely there.
The point is not that there are not people with unpaid copies, the point is that there were more total paid copies.

I have zero proof that this model worked for PF. But I bet it did. And, more importantly, your evidence of having not bought it does not make a case AGAINST more sales, it shows that you were playing the game and contributing to the marketplace from which more sales are born.

 

[darjr]

It worked for red hat for a long time. Still does really.

 

[TwoSix]

Do you think the existence of the PFSRD may have led to games that in turn lead to people buying the core book?

There is a Neil Gaiman short essay on piracy somewhere out there. He said that a lot of his stuff was pirated in Russia (??) and then his sales went up nicely there.
The point is not that there are not people with unpaid copies, the point is that there were more total paid copies.

I have zero proof that this model worked for PF. But I bet it did. And, more importantly, your evidence of having not bought it does not make a case AGAINST more sales, it shows that you were playing the game and contributing to the marketplace from which more sales are born.

I certainly wouldn't claim it as any sort of evidence! All I know is that during 3.5, I bought the majority of first-party material that was released. For Pathfinder, the only books I've purchased were the bestiary and the Inner Sea World Guide. The bestiary gives me faster access to information I've found not as easily usable in an electronic form, and the World Guide is information I can't get online easily (barring piracy, but I generally don't do that). Basically, I'll pay for ease of use and for information I otherwise have no easy access to. Once I didn't have to pay to get the information I wanted, I stopped paying.

Now, have several other people at the table bought PF books? Certainly. Would we have switched to Pathfinder if the PFSRD hadn't existed? Possibly. So, did the PFSRD drive sales? I think it did, but I think it also left a lot of sales on the table to make it so. I certainly think it's a very delicate balancing act between getting more sales and maximizing your player base, with no easy answers.

 

[Reynard]

I think for Pathfinder, anyway, they went in knowing Open Content was core to their successes -- existence even. They decided, I think, to embrace that. They might have lost some sales but I bet they gained a lot of players, and for a company Paizo's size and scope anyway that is just about as good.