D&D 5E So, 5e OGL

[Morrus]

Nobody needed a safe harbor from those terms.

Yes. I said that.

 

[prosfilaes]

Yes. I said that.

What you said was "What the OGL does for you is open up a whole lexicon of words ("hit points", "armor class", "saving throw", etc.) to you,"

In no meaningful way is that true. The OGL opened up a lot of more specific concepts and creatures that WotC could have sued over and won, and opened a lot of rules space that WotC could have sued over and people couldn't have afforded to fight, but "hit points", "armor class", "saving throw", etc. were not part of that, they were already clearly part of the public domain.

 

[Yaarel]

Morrus is right. Every single word in the 3e SRD belongs to all players everywhere. Moreover, players can modify what these terms mean.

For example, what 5e calls ‘advantage’, a 5e clone can call a ‘circumstance bonus’, and what 5e calls ‘disadvantage’, a 5e clone can call a ‘circumstance penalty’.



The precedence of Old School, Pathfinder, and numerous other gaming systems, have shown how to use the 3e SRD legally.

 

[Morrus]

What you said was "What the OGL does for you is open up a whole lexicon of words ("hit points", "armor class", "saving throw", etc.) to you,"

You're quoting selectively. That sentence had a context to which it was replying which had nothing to do with copyright.

Yes, we know those words aren't copyrighted. Yes, we know you don't need the OGL. There is no disagreement here.

You absolutely don't *need* the OGL.

That said, of course, you can take entire sections of the SRD (hell, the whole thing, verbatim) and use it free from worry about copyright. But that isn't what I was talking about.

 

[houser2112]

Morrus is right. Every single word in the 3e SRD belongs to all players everywhere. Moreover, players can modify what these terms mean.

For example, what 5e calls ‘advantage’, a 5e clone can call a ‘circumstance bonus’, and what 5e calls ‘disadvantage’, a 5e clone can call a ‘circumstance penalty’.

The precedence of Old School, Pathfinder, and numerous other gaming systems, have shown how to use the 3e SRD legally.

Yes, the clones could use "circumstance bonus" instead of "Advantage", but an OGL would allow them to use the actual terms in context without having to get cute like that.

 

[Morrus]

Yes, the clones could use "circumstance bonus" instead of "Advantage", but an OGL would allow them to use the actual terms in context without having to get cute like that.

It would make life easier for those who enjoy a safe harbor, plus - and I think this is quite important - it adds an element of authenticity. Not quality, but permission. That latter can be gotten around with good marketing, but using an official license gives you some of that for free. Lots of gamers view products in tiers of officialness - WotC stuff, third party licensed stuff, third party general stuff.

You totally can manage without the OGL (although even Kobold Press made an error and included a passage from the DMG in its Southlands PDF, though they fixed it quickly, so doing so is something you need to be careful about), but if it's there, you may as well use it.

 

[Umbran]

Nobody needed a safe harbor from those terms.

You might want to stop focusing so much on what people technically need to do, and consider what they *want* to do. Like, "Do I want to enter the field when there's risk of my screwing up, and/or WotC coming down on me?" Keep in mind that even if they are in the legal right in their work, a legal tie up that they win can still be costly.

A formal license removes that question. A guy on the internet saying, "No, really, you'll be perfectly safe, it'll be okay to put your hard-earned money into that production," does not remove the question.

 

[Staffan]

What you said was "What the OGL does for you is open up a whole lexicon of words ("hit points", "armor class", "saving throw", etc.) to you,"

In no meaningful way is that true. The OGL opened up a lot of more specific concepts and creatures that WotC could have sued over and won, and opened a lot of rules space that WotC could have sued over and people couldn't have afforded to fight, but "hit points", "armor class", "saving throw", etc. were not part of that, they were already clearly part of the public domain.

Given the way lawsuits work, something being legal might not be enough when the other side can throw way more money than you can at the case.

For example, when TSR sued GDW and Gary Gygax over Dangerous Journeys, some of their claims were:


(7) The MYTHUS concept of character vocations in MYTHUS (pages
13 and 70-71) is derived from the character class concept in the AD&D
1st ed. PHB (pages 18-33); the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (pages 16-21); and the
AD&D UA (pages 12-25 and 74-75).

(30) The "Accomplishment Point" system in MYTHUS (pages 29, 40,
134-136 and 303-304) is derived from the "Experience Point" system in
the AD&D 1st ed. DMG (pages 84-86 and 228) and the AD&D 1st ed. PHB
(pages 106-107).

(32) The method used in MYTHUS (page 9) of resolving game action
by generating random numbers on a linear probability scale is derived
from a similar method used in the AD&D game system in the AD&D 1st ed.
DMG (pages 9-10).


(33) The method used in MYTHUS (pages 9 and 236-238) of
determining game character damage using a weighted probability scale is
derived from a similar method in the AD&D game system in the AD&D 1st
ed. DMG (pages 9-10); the AD&D 1st ed. PHB (page 37); and the AD&D UA
(page 26).



So while being technically right is nice, it doesn't help when the other side is burying you in legal depositions and whatnot.

 

[Morrus]

WotC doesn't have a history of that sort of behaviour, though.

 

[Mistwell]

In the US, settlements for an already filed suit still have to go through the judge anyway. And the judges can (and sometimes do) reject them.

Uh, no. A plaintiff in a civil suit is free to withdraw their suit prior to trial. You cannot force someone to continue with a lawsuit.