D&D 5E So, 5e OGL

[Wicht]

And would they have known that information without someone like you telling them?
Do you think everyone gaming group has or knows someone as informed about the game as you?

I believe my sister was already aware of who the original publishers of the game were. However, granted that they gleaned more info than they might have otherwise, because of my proximity, it still does not belie the point that people talk about these things. Even when not on-line.

Sure, I may have more info then others, but I share what I know. I talk about it with people. And when people have an interest, and they find a ready source of information, they tend to learn things. Once learned, they are remembered. Its not that complicated a subject.

Again, I grant that not everyone who games knows all these things. It may not even be as high as 50%. Probably is not. But I bet that most people who get into GMing learn a thing or two about what is what, and thats about 10-20% of the gaming population. And when the GMs learn these things, they sometimes tell the players. And people make small talk before and after games. And they talk about the module. Or they talk about options If someone knows the author's reputation, they probably comment on it. Slowly these things enter the psyche and are remembered. Pieces are put together in the brain. Its the nature of how we learn quite a few things.

 

[Morrus]

By definition, any products created under the OGL are 3rd Party Products

What definition? I'm not familiar with any definition.

Is FATE a third party product? It used the OGL. Is WOIN a third party product? It also uses the OGL.

 

[Morrus]

Give me an example where the OGL is being used to create a product where a 3rd party is NOT involved.

3E's Unearthed Arcana.

 

[BryonD]

Example on the esoteric nature of the OGL: why was character creation prohibited from being included in many products published under the OGL? How can Pathfinder include it?

That's something that's super important to know about making an OGL product, especially a game, but is not obvious nor is it described in the OGL.

I think you may be confusing the old D20 license with the OGL.

 

[Morrus]

Example on the esoteric nature of the OGL: why was character creation prohibited from being included in many products published under the OGL? How can Pathfinder include it?

That's something that's super important to know about making an OGL product, especially a game, but is not obvious nor is it described in the OGL.

It wasn't excluded. Have you read the OGL? Do you know what it is?

I think you may be confusing it with the d20 System Trademark License.

 

[Wicht]

Give me an example where the OGL is being used to create a product where a 3rd party is NOT involved.

According to many, Paizo is no longer a 3pp. I think thats right.

But I also wouldn't classify Evil Hat's Dresden Files or Spirit of the Century as 3rd party publications.

And, though Mutant's and Masterminds is derived from d20, I am not really sure that I would include Green Ronin as counting as a 3pp.

 

[BryonD]

According to many, Paizo is no longer a 3pp. I think thats right.

But I also wouldn't classify Evil Hat's Dresden Files or Spirit of the Century as 3rd party publications.

And, though Mutant's and Masterminds is derived from d20, I am not really sure that I entirely count Green Ronin as any longer counting as a 3pp.

Yes.

I think this really should be completely obvious.

 

[Jester David]

"Details" of the license? You've raised the threshold form knowing the license exists and that (in the case of 3PPs) knowing it can mean a 3PP is selling something compatible for their game to Discussing Section 15 info? All right. I give.

It's about the number of people who really care about the OGL and getting a new one.

Really caring about the OGL means getting into the details. Otherwise something like the GSL is just fine.
People who care and are interested in Open Gaming and want a 3rd Party licence can likely tell you why the GSL was problematic and the major differences between it and the OGL.
But, really, the OGL is a legal document and is hard to get very excited about.

The majority of D&D players don't even buy a PHB. *If* they know about the OGL they likely don't have strong feelings since they're not going to buy any.
The minority of D&D players who are invested in the game and likely buy the books are slightly more likely to know of the OGL, but even then it's not guaranteed. Even if they do, not all are going to have more than a passing knowledge of the details of the licence, and those that do are not going to use 3rd Party Products and thus not care if it's updated or not. (Or not really care about the difference between 3PP using the old OGL and a theoretical new licence.)
So it's a minority of a minority of the D&D audience that really has strong feelings about the OGL. Which is what started this most recent discussion. Because I'm arguing most gamers likely only have a passing knowledge of the OGL, and that 90% of the D&D audience doesn't much care if the OGL is updated or not.

The OGL is like the infield fly rule. Lots of people have heard of it, but the exact details are vague beyond more dedicated fans having strong feelings regarding it, and it being largely irrelevant in actual play and for enjoyment of the game.

 

[Jester David]

What definition? I'm not familiar with any definition.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/third_party
someone not directly involved in a transaction. A third entity in the Seller (first party) and Customer (second party) relationship. A Seller may employ a third party to perform specific services to augment the value of a product. For example, a manufacturer may employ a third party to pack and distribute a product. A computer manufacturer may augment their product with software from a third-party supplier.

Yeah, not an ideal definition, but "3rd party" is a term that covers a lot of different stuff. But, generally, WotC is the first party as the creator of the licence, and the second party is the consumer.

Is FATE a third party product? It used the OGL. Is WOIN a third party product? It also uses the OGL.

Arguably it's a 3PP of Fudge. But, this is true. It would be a 1st Party product.
But this is an odd example, as Fudge didn't really need to use the OGL, being unrelated to D&D and not employing the SRD. It's OGL probably because they either didn't know of the Creative Commons Licence or it didn't exist yet. It's not really a great example of an OGL product or what to expect from future OGL products.

3E's Unearthed Arcana.

This is a 1st Party Product (by WotC for a WotC game) that was incorporated into the SRD and included the OGL so it could be used and referenced. It wasn't released under the OGL.

It wasn't excluded. Have you read the OGL? Do you know what it is?

I think you may be confusing it with the d20 System Trademark License.

Which was my point.
The OGL doesn't reference this, but character creation was and issue with the GSL and its SRD. Knowing the OGL exists and knowing the details of it enough to have an informed opinion are two different things. "OGL" is just a catchall that often is not well understood.

 

[BryonD]

Which was my point.
The OGL doesn't reference this, but character creation was and issue with the GSL and its SRD. Knowing the OGL exists and knowing the details of it enough to have an informed opinion are two different things. "OGL" is just a catchall that often is not well understood.

This is not correct. It had nothing to do with the OGL and it also had nothing to do with the SRD.