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So Cyberpunk 2077

Fair. The high-level hacks really do make the game easy-mode - every encounter is essentially over before it begins. I'm using a Sandestivan on my second playthrough, and specialising in pistols with a bit of blades, and it's certainly working well.

It totally changes the way the game is played.

I dont use 'scan vision' now for anything else other than loot detection.
 

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MarkB

Legend
It totally changes the way the game is played.

I dont use 'scan vision' now for anything else other than loot detection.
That's still taking some getting used to, and I do use it to identify which faction the foes are (usually doesn't matter, but in my first playthrough one of the Assault in Progress locations had some Aldecaldos there and I was heavily allied with them, so I let them be). But yes, I tend to rely on the minimap to point me towards unseen foes rather than highlighting them in advance.

The nice thing is that I actually get a good look at them now. In my first playthrough, most enemies I was actively fighting were human-shaped red swirls thanks to the slightly over-enthusiastic highlighting system.
 


Parmandur

Legend
This has been standard practice in the industry for decades. And it's crap. They set a release date, get the buzz going in their pre-orders, and then rarely shift the release date - particularly as Xmas gets closer. Getting the product through the physical product generation and packing takes enough time that they have to have the base release ready well ahead of ship and release dates - knowing full well that it's still ferociously buggy. They count on that time lag between their official base release packing and the street date to generate downloadable patches to save the playability of the game when people actually install it on their consoles/PC hard drives.

This is one significant reason why there are people who never buy the .0 version of any software and why I usually wait to buy computer games for either my X-Box or iMac until many months after release (and when the prices go down).

It's common practice, but it's not universal. Nintendo, for first party releases at least, will delay games for years if needed, and they are always good to go day one.
 

trappedslider

Adventurer
Corpo Streetkid Nomad
 

MarkB

Legend
I've criticised the poor route guidance provided in the game when driving a couple of times in this thread, but I was willing to cut the developers some slack on the grounds that they just didn't have time to prioritise a decent HUD system for it.

Until today I finally got round to starting the street-racing missions (I'd skipped them in my first playthrough) and found that these come with a comprehensive visual interface that guides you along a chosen course in your main view, rather than just in the minimap. So it's not that they didn't have a system in place, it's just that they decided it wasn't worth implementing for regular day-to-day driving.
 


MarkB

Legend
Well, they've issued an official statement.


Their explanation of how things looked from their side is rather damning, and not entirely convincing. They basically admit that they were optimising for PC and next-gen consoles first, and effectively just hoping they might optimise things enough for the older-gen consoles by the time they hit the release date.
 


chuckdee

Explorer
Their explanation of how things looked from their side is rather damning, and not entirely convincing. They basically admit that they were optimising for PC and next-gen consoles first, and effectively just hoping they might optimise things enough for the older-gen consoles by the time they hit the release date.

Not sure why damning or not convincing, but then I've seen how it works on the inside. I've seen where something is working on one platform, so they use it for reviews and media, with the assumption that the other platform will 'get there'. And it can seem quite plausible, though it's never as certain as they think it is in my experience.
 


MarkB

Legend
Not sure why damning or not convincing, but then I've seen how it works on the inside. I've seen where something is working on one platform, so they use it for reviews and media, with the assumption that the other platform will 'get there'. And it can seem quite plausible, though it's never as certain as they think it is in my experience.
The damning part is their admission that, despite last-gen consoles (which, bear in mind, were current-gen up until literally weeks before the game's launch) being almost certainly the game's largest user base, they were optimising the game for PC first, current-gen consoles second, and last-gen consoles a distant third.

The not-convincing part is the assertion that they had any real expectation of being able to finish optimising the game for last-gen consoles by the time the game launched.
 

chuckdee

Explorer
The damning part is their admission that, despite last-gen consoles (which, bear in mind, were current-gen up until literally weeks before the game's launch) being almost certainly the game's largest user base, they were optimising the game for PC first, current-gen consoles second, and last-gen consoles a distant third.

The not-convincing part is the assertion that they had any real expectation of being able to finish optimising the game for last-gen consoles by the time the game launched.
Optomization is done last. That is a standard practice. You build for it, but you do optimizations and performance testing last. He said that they saw that the PC was close to their numbers and they were seeing improvements when they announced release. Some time between that announcement (which already saw blow back) and the final days, the curve of improvements changed. That happens. It's bad decision making in my opinion to rely on that, and I think that decisions should be made on what's in front of you- but I've been bitten by it before, and in my case, the CEO was breathing down our necks to get it fixed and cleaned up rather than owning up to the fault that it was his own management and himself that allowed it to happen.
 

MGibster

Legend
Is it just me, or does it seem like they were developing a whole story line involving Holt using cyberpsychos to assassinate the mayor and at some point they just dropped it?
 

MarkB

Legend
Is it just me, or does it seem like they were developing a whole story line involving Holt using cyberpsychos to assassinate the mayor and at some point they just dropped it?
A lot of the stuff around the mayoral race seems partially developed. The Dream On quest line with the Peralezes, as disturbingly compelling as it is, eventually just fizzles out. I'm thinking maybe they'll expand upon this as a set of DLC quests involving a larger corporate/political conspiracy.
 

trappedslider

Adventurer
A lot of the stuff around the mayoral race seems partially developed. The Dream On quest line with the Peralezes, as disturbingly compelling as it is, eventually just fizzles out. I'm thinking maybe they'll expand upon this as a set of DLC quests involving a larger corporate/political conspiracy.
I don't remember at which point but if you look around, you'll see Mr. Blue hands who appears in one of the endings offering you a job dealing with an orbital casino.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
I found the statement interesting because it goes into a bit more on what is behind the issues. A lot of it seems to be related to their "streaming" system that allows them to more or less seamlessly load parts of the map. They probably have to make compromises for available memory, but another factor is the speed of the hard drive. Today I learned that some of the "lastgen" consoles actually can be equipped with an external SSD and that can boost the performance of the game considerably. So if you intend to stay with your console and worry about running out of hard disk space anyway, consider that as an option,it will probably help you for many games.

I play on a PC with an SSD and all, so it's not really an issue for me. I think the bugs I see are not that much related to performance, a

I am on my second play-through, this time on a male V with a Nomad origin. It took quite some time until I got used to the voice actor. Fun thing is you can get your Nomad car from the intro back at some point. It's fairly decent, good speed (but other cars are faster). I always try to take it now when I am heading to Panam. On my female V, I really fell in love with the Nomad version of the Quadra-66. Good handling and one of the fastest car in the game IIRC, and it would have been a natural fit for this V, too, but that would be boring.
 

TheAlkaizer

Game Designer
I cannot in good conscience trust most of what he says.

I work in video games development. He said that they were the final decision makers but never intended for anything that happened to happen. They either tested their game at least once in the last few months themselves and saw that it was unplayable for older consoles, or they didn't. In both situations, making the decision to release the game was inevitably lead to a huge mess. Nobody will convince me that it wasn't an economically motivated decision.

I also read somewhere that he said that the testers hadn't reported all the bugs that happened on launch. The thing is that we are not talking about some obscure bug. Anyone that can pickup the controller and play for twenty minutes would have been that the old generation version is unplayable and the new consoles is really not top notch.

And when he says "we're working very hard" what he means is "the team that worked on this project for over seven years, crunched for months and had little say in release the game in such a broken state will continue crunching to fix our mistake".

This whole affair makes me very sad. Not only I like CD Projekt Red as a developer, but this whole fiasco is very, very bad for an already cynical industry when it comes to consumer-developer relationships.
 

MarkB

Legend
I found the statement interesting because it goes into a bit more on what is behind the issues. A lot of it seems to be related to their "streaming" system that allows them to more or less seamlessly load parts of the map. They probably have to make compromises for available memory, but another factor is the speed of the hard drive. Today I learned that some of the "lastgen" consoles actually can be equipped with an external SSD and that can boost the performance of the game considerably. So if you intend to stay with your console and worry about running out of hard disk space anyway, consider that as an option,it will probably help you for many games.
Yeah, I've got a standard PS4, and you can really see the streaming issue kick in when you use a fast vehicle. I gave up using the Caliburn because it would literally drop through the world sometimes - the road would be loaded in visually, but the physics engine didn't know it was there.

Even just riding a fast bike, if I drive directly to an interior mission location, I have to wait for about ten seconds after I dismount for the door to load in, in stages - first, the basic panel, then the glass, but black, and finally the translucent view of the interior. Then I can open it and walk in.

I'm not planning to stick with my PS4 - I just haven't had an opportunity to purchase a PS5 yet.
I am on my second play-through, this time on a male V with a Nomad origin. It took quite some time until I got used to the voice actor. Fun thing is you can get your Nomad car from the intro back at some point. It's fairly decent, good speed (but other cars are faster). I always try to take it now when I am heading to Panam. On my female V, I really fell in love with the Nomad version of the Quadra-66. Good handling and one of the fastest car in the game IIRC, and it would have been a natural fit for this V, too, but that would be boring.
That was my first playthrough, and while I eventually switched to motorbikes for urban travel, I still always broke out the starter Nomad car when out of town. It's a very competent ride - agile, fast enough, and it handles reasonably off-road.
 

trappedslider

Adventurer
Yeah, I've got a standard PS4, and you can really see the streaming issue kick in when you use a fast vehicle. I gave up using the Caliburn because it would literally drop through the world sometimes - the road would be loaded in visually, but the physics engine didn't know it was there.

Even just riding a fast bike, if I drive directly to an interior mission location, I have to wait for about ten seconds after I dismount for the door to load in, in stages - first, the basic panel, then the glass, but black, and finally the translucent view of the interior. Then I can open it and walk in.
huh, I haven't had that issue with cars or bikes...my only issue with vehicles has been hitting stuff that I see and don't avoid lol and going flying off the bike lol. There was on spot on an onramp, I hit the side wall and went flying half way into the next section of night city...lol
 

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