D&D 5E So...warlocks?

[yakuba]

Why do people think that Hex is so great? It's a first level spell that's very hard to maintain out of the combat as when someone dies I think you have to transfer the hex? Unless I've misread it I'd rather save my Concentration for Silent Image and the like and my combat spells for things more like Evard's black Tentacles.

Note the wording:

If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature.

(emphasis added)

You don't need to reapply the Hex right away, as long you don't lose your concentration or let your cursed target escape, you can reapply to a new target in the next combat before the time period ends.

It does become less useful at higher levels because, the instant damage you can do via Hellish Rebuke or Blight starts to require a significant amount of successful hits to balance out the damage.

And although Hex damage doesn't scale with level, even at 9th level it only takes about 10 hits using Hex before Hex (on average) out damages any other Warlock spell.

 

[TheGorramBatman]

Hex is also a bonus action to cast, which is an important part of its appeal.

Realistically, Hex isn't as great for a Warlock as Hunter's Mark is for Rangers and Paladins due to the Warlock's extremely limited number of slots combined with the Warlock's other spell options. Spending one of many first level slots to get Hex up for an hour and save higher level slots is a better value proposition than casting Hex with one of only a couple 5th level slots to have it up all day.

However, Hex is an extremely important part of the general damage discussion -- Especially regarding Eldritch Blast vs Pact Blade -- and will likely be one of the go to boss slayer spells. At mid levels Hex is ~25% damage increase for Eldritch Blast which can be cast as a bonus action.

He's mostly right, though. The Warlock has an extremely limited number of spell slots and well placed AoE, crowd control, or utility spells will likely win those slots out in a fair amount of situations.

 

[Mirtek]

It doesn't matter what kind of Warlock (and Vengeance Paladins. Poor Vengeance Paladins) you're trying to make. Your options are to either take Resilient and/or War Caster, or cry that your Hex went down more often than you'd like.

So concentration saves are a major concern. You're contradicting yourself here.

Either "Concentration checks deserve very little of the gloom and doom they inspire on these boards. They're not that big of a deal in practice." or they are so important that you have to blow your only free (if you want to go 20/20 from 16/16) feat to migate them.

 

[thewok]

I was under the impression that you could pick any type of weapon as your pact weapon and be proficient with it. You aren't proficient with a non-pact greatsword, but you are with the one you summon.
I don't have the PHB here with me, but I thought the language was you can create any weapon in your free hand and you are proficient with it, not "you can create any weapon you are proficient with."

Still doesn't solve the issue of fighting styles or armor [edit: and sure you have to wait til level 3], but that's why you have all that other warlock stuff to balance it out.

That is the case. However, in the case of dual-wielding (which is the only case where it's really going to come into play), you have a problem. You can summon your pact weapon in one hand, but your off-hand is still limited to whatever you're proficient with normally. In the case of a Warlock with no other class levels, that's only simple weapons. And, since both weapons need to be Light, your pact weapon is 1d8 damage, and the best you can hope for in the offhand is a handaxe for 1d6 damage. If you want to stick with finesse weapons so you don't have to worry about Strength, then your offhand weapon goes down to 1d4 damage. Now, you can get the Dual Wielder feat to remove the Light weapon restriction, but that's a sizable investment.

However, if you really want to dual wield, it'll be worth it to be able to do it.

 

[bogmad]

That is the case. However, in the case of dual-wielding (which is the only case where it's really going to come into play), you have a problem. You can summon your pact weapon in one hand, but your off-hand is still limited to whatever you're proficient with normally. In the case of a Warlock with no other class levels, that's only simple weapons. And, since both weapons need to be Light, your pact weapon is 1d8 damage, and the best you can hope for in the offhand is a handaxe for 1d6 damage. If you want to stick with finesse weapons so you don't have to worry about Strength, then your offhand weapon goes down to 1d4 damage. Now, you can get the Dual Wielder feat to remove the Light weapon restriction, but that's a sizable investment.

However, if you really want to dual wield, it'll be worth it to be able to do it.

Yeah, I agree.
If I were DMing and a warlock player wanted to invest enough in his character to take the dual-wielder feat, I'd probably even houserule that the feat grants access to two pact weapons.

 

[thewok]

Yeah, I agree.
If I were DMing and a warlock player wanted to invest enough in his character to take the dual-wielder feat, I'd probably even houserule that the feat grants access to two pact weapons.

I might even do the same. Something like the pact weapon being a matching set of swords, forged in Malbolge or something like that. I'd limit the invocations to working only with the main hand, though. So, the character would still get only the one bonus attack on the off hand, and the extra damage would key off the one or two main hand attacks. I think being able to dual wield the equivalent of longswords is a fairly big boon over what's normally possible with dual wielding.

 

[Ryuujin]

Hex is also a bonus action to cast, which is an important part of its appeal.

Realistically, Hex isn't as great for a Warlock as Hunter's Mark is for Rangers and Paladins due to the Warlock's extremely limited number of slots combined with the Warlock's other spell options. Spending one of many first level slots to get Hex up for an hour and save higher level slots is a better value proposition than casting Hex with one of only a couple 5th level slots to have it up all day.

However, Hex is an extremely important part of the general damage discussion -- Especially regarding Eldritch Blast vs Pact Blade -- and will likely be one of the go to boss slayer spells. At mid levels Hex is ~25% damage increase for Eldritch Blast which can be cast as a bonus action.

He's mostly right, though. The Warlock has an extremely limited number of spell slots and well placed AoE, crowd control, or utility spells will likely win those slots out in a fair amount of situations.

Well Hex is fairly similar to Hunter's Mark except a Warlock can make more attacks to benefit from it than a Ranger or Paladin, as the way to get 4 attacks on a Ranger is another Concentration spell.

Also once you get to the point of casting Hex as a 5th level spell you can maintain Concentration for 24 hours, so as long as you get a Short Rest during that time you get your slot back while still having Hex up.

 

[Wyrd_One]

It's sounding like the best thing to do to be a blade pact lock is to take a level in Fighter, Paladin, or another fighting class. That gets you all the weapon and armor proficiencies you want, plus a potential fighting style or some healing spells to use.

On another note, the Warlock gets 2 spell slots for over half their career, plus some cantrips, a.k.a. Eldritch Blast. So my question to anyone who has played a Warlock; are they fun? It seems like if you're not resting often you're basically spending each and every round casting Eldritch Blast at someone. I imagine that could get old rather quickly.