D&D 5E So Where my Witches at?

[Benjamin Olson]

I mostly agree with this. Just a reminder that a Warlock does have access to Polymorph as a Invocation: Sculptor of Flesh.

Fair point. I always gloss over the "can cast once a day using a spell slot" invocations as garbage.

 

[cbwjm]

Another witch "class" was the from the Glantri gazetteer. One of the secret crafts that could be added to a magic-user, it let them charm, create a potions, create a doll curse, disguise her appearance, summon imps and other familiars, perform a multi-target curse, change her shape (including into several similar creatures at once), and finally gain a magic jar type ability. It was similar to the 2e kit, though with a greater amount of powers as you gained greater mastery of the craft.

 

[Asisreo]

Also, I've played a witch character in 5e and have had alot of fun with her. The stereotypical boil-boil toil and trouble type. Her build wasn't all that optimized but it worked out alright.

Basically I was a fiend Warlock with chain pact. My background was Hermit and I spent my downtime creating magic items like potions to give that extra flavour oomph with some mechanics behind it.

Its funny because she was ugly but also charismatic so she helped the other players see the difference between high charisma and attractive person.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Warlock has all the thematic trappings, but its reliance on pact magic and eldritch blast doesn't invoke the feel for me. A witch doesn't feel like it should be spamming EB with occasional uses of invocations or pact spells, they feel like they should be a regular spellcaster mechanics with proper spell and ability support. Fiend patron is all about the burning, and hexblade is focused on making melee warlocks viable, neither feels like the archetypal witch with curses and spells.

It is quite easily possible to make a warlock that doesn't use Elrdritch Blast - making use of cantrips like Toll the Dead or Infestation for example. Or making melee attacks with a pact weapon (possibly in the form of talons). They will inflict less damage than other casters, sure, but that's appropriate for a character that focuses on debuffs, mind-control, and misdirection rather than direct attacks. No patron locks you into using specific spells; and the fiend patron has some pretty decent "witchy" spells as well - Command, Blindness/Deafness, Stinking Cloud. Save-based debuffs do kinda suck for a PC warlock-witch, though, particularly if you're going to forgo Eldritch Blast; the warlock has so few spell slots that it's seriously painful when an enemy makes its save.

Wizards kinda fit the trope, but the current subclasses feel like they lock you into one aspect of the witch rather than general witchery. Diviners focus too much on the divination, enchanters too much on the charms, etc. Further, it ignores areas that could be bolstered by ideas like improved familiars or curses (both areas they could borrow from warlocks).

Nearly every single wizard subclass fits the witch fantasy archetype VERY well. Pointing out dire omens (diviner) is very much a classic witch thing (c.f. Macbeth). Charm is one of THE most archetypical witch powers. ("Burn the Witch! She MADE my husband commit adultery"). Illusion works great, necromancy works great, conjuration is suitable for a "consorts with dark powers" type as well as "appears in unexpected places", transmutation fits brewing / supernatural personal abilities / changing people into newts. Wizard subclasses don't lock the caster into doing anything; they augment existing spelltypes or abilities.

Druids grab the nature-mage aspect, but again unless you want to focus on spores or wild-shape, the subs don't feel sufficiently "spooky". There was a druid subclass a while back (twilight) that sorta aimed for that, but I think there is definitely design space here for "nature witch" with mechanical support. Druids need a spooky sub!

I've yet to read TCoE...but I have to agree that there probably is room for some darker-themed druid spells or abilities; and/or a more unseelie-inspired subclass. Circle of the Land - Swamp or Underdark work decently well for witches. As can Shepherd with insects/wolves/spiders and the like and maybe a reskinned or improvised totem type.

Sorcerer? Spell list support is awful for witchery (almost all evocation and flashy magic, very little support spells). Bardic magic is closer but again, bard mechanics emphasize performance and don't quite grab the feel of witchcraft. Clerics feels almost the opposite of what I would want, with magic being very angelic/radiant.

It may surprise you to learn then that the vast majority of sorcerer spells are NOT evocations. Shadow Sorcerer is almost tailor-made for witch archetypes. And both Twin Spell and Heighten spell are incredibly useful for save-based debuffs.

The issue though is that right now, no single class/subclass mix really represents the concept well.

Sounds more to me like you don't want a class that represents the witch archetype; you want one that locks or enourages you into fitting the archetype. I respectfully think that it's better to have broad and inclusive classes. Even subclasses, which very frequently carry some degree of pre-flavored fluff, should be broad enough to encompass multiple archetypes. They should be scaffolds on which the -character- builds their own particular flavor. Not molds for a single idea.

 

[Teemu]

To me the 5e witch is found in the warlock class. Take the archfey, fiend, or celestial patron, and the tome or chain pact. You can get rituals like augury and beast bond; you can get a familiar; you can take thaumaturgy or druidcraft; you get hex and polymorph; you can heal. Basically you can cover all the witch archetypes with a warlock, and most importantly you retain the concept of making deals with supernatural powers, unlike a wizard witch, which while also a good fit, doesn’t quite achieve the full witch fantasy in my opinion.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'll try my hand at it:

Wizard archetype: School of Witchcraft
- blurb: old magic before it was codified, learned from spirits beyond time, distrusted but useful and helpful, covens instead of formal academies yadayada.

level 2:
Cauldron of Creation
Starting at 2nd level, you can produce magic potions. You gain proficiency in your choice of Herbalist kit or Poisoner's tools. Furthermore, you spend 10 minutes focusing your magic on a vial of mundane water and expend a spell slot to transform it into a potion. Once you have expended a spell slot to create a potion, you cannot regain that slot until the potion is consumed or after 1 week, at which time the potion loses its effectiveness. You can create up to three potions at a time; creating a fourth potion causes the oldest currently active one to immediately lose its potency. If that potion has been consumed, its effects immediately end.

The spell slot you expend determines the type of potion you can create.

Spell Slot	Potion Created
1st	Climbing, growth, or healing
2nd	Mind reading or greater healing
3rd	Invisibility, superior healing, or water breathing
4th	Resistance

Level 2:
Old Magick
You can bend ancient magic to hinder creatures. The bane and hex spells are wizard spells for you, and you add them to your spellbook. You always have them prepared, yet they don't count against the number of spells you can prepare.

You can cast either spell without expending a spell slot. You can cast the spells in this way a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Level 6:
Echoes of the Moons

Echoes Known. When you gain this feature, you learn two Echoes of your choice, which are detailed below. Each time you gain a level in this class, you can replace one echo you know with a different one.

Using an Echo. You can use one Echo when you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot and the target is affected by your Bane or Hex spells, or another spell of the Enchantment or Necromancy school. You can use Echoes a number of times equal to half of your wizard level (round down), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Drain. When you cast a spell that deals damage of the target, you gain 3d6 temporary hit points. The number of temporary hit points you gain increases by 1d6 when you reach 10th level (4d6) and 14th level (5d6) in this class.

Doom. If the spell requires the named creature to make a saving throw, that creature has disadvantage on the first save it makes against the spell.

Woe. The first time the named creature takes damage from the spell, that creature takes an extra 2d8 force damage. The extra force damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 10th level (3d8) and 14th level (4d8) in this class.

Fortune Inversed. If the target is affected by any other spells, you know what those spells are, and you can attempt to end one of your choice by succeeding on an Intelligence check with a DC equal to 10 + the level of the chosen spell.

Puppetry. The first time the creature takes damage from the spell, you can knock the creature prone or move it up to 10 feet, either directly toward you or away from you.

Sympathy. If the creature is within range of the spell, you can target the creature with the spell even if you can't see the creature or it has total cover against the spell.

Level 10:
Inexorable Hexer
You learn two new Echoes of your choice from your Echoes of the Moons feature.

Level 14:
Year of the Witch
You can cast Disguise self at-will. When you spend a spell that would cause a creature to be charmed or frightened, the one creature affected makes the initial saving throw against the spell with disadvantage.

Furthermore, you add the Augury, Contact other Plane and your choice of Commune or Commune with nature to your spellbook. When you spend a spell slot on those spells, you can ask 2 more questions.

 

[SkidAce]

Another witch "class" was the from the Glantri gazetteer. One of the secret crafts that could be added to a magic-user, it let them charm, create a potions, create a doll curse, disguise her appearance, summon imps and other familiars, perform a multi-target curse, change her shape (including into several similar creatures at once), and finally gain a magic jar type ability. It was similar to the 2e kit, though with a greater amount of powers as you gained greater mastery of the craft.

That supplement had a great influence on my early campaign.

 

[Lanefan]

I would love a spellcaster class built all around curses. Ideally these curses would work in tandem with things that other classes can do. For example, a curse that causes an enemy to deal damage to adjacent other enemies whenever it attacks. Or a curse that allows attacks from your allies to steal health from the cursed creature if they hit.

Call a class like that a Witch and the neo-Pagans will jump all over you, and in this case I think they'd have a point.

 

[Remathilis]

It is quite easily possible to make a warlock that doesn't use Elrdritch Blast - making use of cantrips like Toll the Dead or Infestation for example. Or making melee attacks with a pact weapon (possibly in the form of talons). They will inflict less damage than other casters, sure, but that's appropriate for a character that focuses on debuffs, mind-control, and misdirection rather than direct attacks. No patron locks you into using specific spells; and the fiend patron has some pretty decent "witchy" spells as well - Command, Blindness/Deafness, Stinking Cloud. Save-based debuffs do kinda suck for a PC warlock-witch, though, particularly if you're going to forgo Eldritch Blast; the warlock has so few spell slots that it's seriously painful when an enemy makes its save.

My issue is that warlocks have too few spell slots (due to how they structured Pact Magic) and they end up relying on cantrips and invocations, and that creates the illusion of doing 1-2 things constantly and a few "whammo" effects ever-so-often. I think the class is fun for certain playstyles, but I think warlocks are really geared toward an "attacker-with-tricks" playstyle moreso than a dedicated spellcaster (so much so, I tend to thing of them more like the magic-equivalent to rogues than akin to wizards or sorcerers).

I think there is room for a subclass that adds some warlock elements to a full spellcaster.

Nearly every single wizard subclass fits the witch fantasy archetype VERY well. Pointing out dire omens (diviner) is very much a classic witch thing (c.f. Macbeth). Charm is one of THE most archetypical witch powers. ("Burn the Witch! She MADE my husband commit adultery"). Illusion works great, necromancy works great, conjuration is suitable for a "consorts with dark powers" type as well as "appears in unexpected places", transmutation fits brewing / supernatural personal abilities / changing people into newts. Wizard subclasses don't lock the caster into doing anything; they augment existing spelltypes or abilities.

For me, a witch dabbles a little in all those things, but doesn't specialize in any of them per se. A witch does read omens, but they also lay hexs, cast charms, brew potions, summon monsters, and turn people into toads. The schools of magic kinda assume you're going to focus on one of those aspects, rather than touch on several.

Furthermore, if a "witch" is just a wizard specializing in a normal school of magic, there is nothing "witchy" about their magic and you've gone to the Harry Potter school of "witch is the feminine of wizard" rather than make witch something unique.

It may surprise you to learn then that the vast majority of sorcerer spells are NOT evocations. Shadow Sorcerer is almost tailor-made for witch archetypes. And both Twin Spell and Heighten spell are incredibly useful for save-based debuffs.

I built a shadow sorcerer. My biggest problem is that anything I wanted to do with them, I tended to find there wasn't enough spells to support the concept. They are lousy necromancers, have no summonings, not a lot of illusions, and very few debuffs. Coupled with their low spell selection, I found that they ended up still heavy on blast magic with a few key utility spells scattered through. But that's a topic for another day.

 

[Faolyn]

To me the 5e witch is found in the warlock class. Take the archfey, fiend, or celestial patron, and the tome or chain pact. You can get rituals like augury and beast bond; you can get a familiar; you can take thaumaturgy or druidcraft; you get hex and polymorph; you can heal. Basically you can cover all the witch archetypes with a warlock, and most importantly you retain the concept of making deals with supernatural powers, unlike a wizard witch, which while also a good fit, doesn’t quite achieve the full witch fantasy in my opinion.

It probably wouldn't be too hard to create a Pact Boon that replicates a cauldron, poppet, or other "witchy" tool and get an even stronger feel as well.