Sorcerer in need of Knowledge(Planes)

[0-hr]

I'd like to play a sorcerer who does a lot of summoning. The "Summoner" prestige class in Relics & Rituals seemed like a good fit EXCEPT that sorcerers are too dumb to meet the prerequisite until 13th level!

The PrC says that you need to have

"8 ranks in the Knowledge skill dealing with the summoner's potential patron. For example, a summoner seeking a pact with Cerbus, an elder earth elemental, would need 8 ranks in Knowledge Inner Planes"

Using just the 3.5 core books and (any) Scarred Lands material, what are some good ways to be a sorcerer/Summoner before the campain is all-but-over?

The best I can come up with at present is to take a level of Cleric, but I'd really hate to slow down my already retarded spell progression. Since sorcerers only get Knowledge(Arcana), is there a group of critters that would be covered by that (yet could be a reasonable "patron")? It seems to me that everything is going to be Knowledge Planes if you summon it

Also, just any summoner advice as it relates to the Scarred Lands would be appreciated. I'm not all that familiar with the material (yet).

 

[Knightcrawler]

I would check the errata of R&R. A lot of books changed/reduced some of their requirements because of the friggin idiocy of Sorcerers not having Knowledge as a class skill.

Also you can try the Alienist from Tome and Blood. You only have to 7th level to meet the requirements for that. Also you may want to look at the Book of Vile Darkness becuase it has a couple of classes that cover summoning.

 

[Rashak Mani]

To get the Elemental Savant PrC I had to get the Forgotten Realms Education Feat which allows for all knowledge skills to be class skills... there might be something similar to that in 3.5.

 

[Staffan]

Ask your DM if you can use the Cosmopolitan or Educated feats from FRCS. Cosmopolitan makes any one skill into a class skill (and gives a small bonus, IIRC) whereas Educated makes all knowledge skills class skills. Both are limited to getting at first level, and are only available to people from certain places.

 

[Nightfall]

Ki,

SL prestige class is my forte (Though I will admit my loathing for Summoner as it's a little underpowered for my taste.)

Firstly if you are taking Summoner, I'd suggest a Scion Feat. Probably something like Hellspawn or Child of the Heaven. (This way you can get a nice focus going BEFORE you go sorcerer)

Second I'm reasonable sure Summoner was errata'd down to 5 ranks knowledge planes.

Thirdly if you are getting a fiend patron or a celestial one, I can give you a few names. Unless you're using something else.

 

[Li Shenron]

The PrC says that you need to have...

If you are not playing in an official tournament or something like an online game... Tell your DM which kind of Sorcerer you want to play and if he can lower this requirement.
You don't have to make a house rule for it, this is not even a rule, it's a PrCl written by an author who probably didn't even consider about all the consequences of the requirements, and who definitely doesn't have the right to force you to play it as it is written. You bought the book to have fun not to submit to someone else's writing of an optional material.

Remember that the original idea behind prestige classes (in 3.0 DMG) according to Monte Cook was to give the DM the chance to write his own up: now that idea is lost in time, and you can find thousands of PrCls around, early or late there will be a PrCl which will be exactly like this one, but with different requirements, but you don't have to wait for it.

 

[0-hr]

First, thanks for the advice everyone. I'm pretty sure that we're doing "pure Scarred Lands" so asking for other sources probably isn't going to fly.

I looked up R&R erratta and it did't mention anything about the Summoner PrC. It really does seem like an oversight to me though (or else it should mention that it's really just a wizard PrC for arcanists). There hasn't been a second printing or anything has there?

I didn't think that Summoner was too underpowered. It didn't do a whole lot, but then the prereqs weren't that bad (at least for wizards and clerics). Most of the Scarred Lands PrCs seem a little on the weak side compared to the others out there anyway.

If there is a better PrC that would suit a sorcerer, I'd like to hear about it. What I would like to focus on is summoning stuff (because this guy, likely a halfling, is a wimp) and metamagic (because the spontaneous casting of metamagic is what I want to play around with sorcerer-wise).

PS: So there's really no class of summonables that could be covered by Knowledge(Arcana)? That was really my best hope for doing this the easy way. I see the SRD says this:

Arcana (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, cryptic phrases, constructs, dragons, magical beasts)

So if my patron were a dragon maybe?

 

[Nightfall]

Ki Ryn,

If your DM has a problem tell him the Sage said "5 ranks in Knowledge (Planes)" And tell him to email me as well as I investigate this further. There is no second printing of R&R1 or a revision as such. But I'd think it would be fair to say it couldn't hurt.

Now if you are into summoning stuff, there is the Demonologist Pr-class. They aren't evil but they do like them fiends. Angel blooded is another Pr-class that allows for summoning power, especially for sorcerers. You can easily alter it or talk your DM into tailoring it into another focus, such as summoning djinni/efreeti.

There are some weak SL Pr-classes...and then some really strong ones. Blessed of Mesos is certainly one that comes to mind when talking sorcerer based Pr-classes. Blessed of Mesos are VERY much metamagic and raw sorcerous power all rolled into one. However the gaining of the Arcane Devourer Cohort does tend to limit things...still if you want it. *shrugs*

As for what's covered with knowledge (arcana) you could do it that way but I'd think it be better to stick to the planes at the moment. (Course if you go wyrm blooded, different story.)

 

[0-hr]

Ok, here's a thought. Celestial animals or vermin become "magical beasts" when that template is applied to them, and Knowledge(Arcana) covers magical beasts.

So you have this small enclave of halfling folk deep in the forbidden depths of Geleeda's Grove, watched over by some goodly divine being (I'm thinking maybe Tanil or one of her solars?). She empowers various animals to act as celestial guardians for the enclave when the need arises.

If this being agrees to become my patron (as per the Scarred Lands PrC) and her minions are celestial versions of the woodland creatures, then it follows that:

1) Knowledge(Arcana) would meet the PrC requirement.
2) Only Celestial Animals/Vermin could be summoned using the PrC bonus spells.


That fits pretty well with the character background I was working on, so (barring any rules or setting problems) I'll run that by my DM and see what he thinks.

- - -

I'll also look over those other PrCs you mentioned and see if any will work with the character concept. I'd also like to here briefly what you think the weak points of Summoner are (just in case I'm reading it wrong).

 

[Nightfall]

Ki Ryn,

What ever floats your boat. Otherwise have him see me.

My problem with Summoner is how good a metamagic feat can you REALLY add to a summoned animal? About four I can think of off hand. So while yes getting bonus meta-magic feats are nice, 5 is a little...excessive. I mean after extending and persisting a summoning spell, what's left if you've already got aggument summoning (which ISN'T a metamagic feat btw.) Not a lot else. That's kind of why I felt if they wanted to make it more fun, following in the same path as other summoning stuff (such as demonologists) are better at making their summonings LAST longer and do more. But that's just me. Other than that, it's alright.