Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[freyar]

Well, I don't really have a preference between those two. Take your pick! AC 20 feels a little weak, but the barkskin will compensate.

 

[Cleon]

Well, I don't really have a preference between those two. Take your pick! AC 20 feels a little weak, but the barkskin will compensate.

Well I have no real objection to making it AC 22 with a chain shirt in human form, but in that cast I'd prefer option #1:

Armor Class: 22 (+4 Dex, +8 natural [animal/hybrid form]; or +4 Dex, +4 masterwork chain shirt, +4 natural [human form]), touch 14, flat-footed 16

Shall I update with that?

That still leaves the Skills & Feats of course. We should have the skills be at least as good as the Thralls, who have the following:

Skills:
Human Form: Balance +1, Climb +1, Handle Animal +3, Hide +1, Jump +2, Listen +6, Move Silently +1, Spot +6, Swim +2
Panther Form: Balance +11, Climb +13, Handle Animal +3, Hide +9*, Jump +16, Listen +6, Move Silently +9, Spot +6, Swim +12
Hybrid Form: Balance +11, Climb +13, Handle Animal +3, Hide +9*, Jump +12, Listen +6, Move Silently +9, Spot +6, Swim +12

Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (pantherclaw, pantherpaw, pantherscourge)ᴮ, Iron Willᴮ, Multiattackᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Looking at the above, I realized the Werepanther Thrall Working Draft has a "Jaguar Form" holdover from its Werejaguar base creature that should be "Panther Form".

I've corrected it.

Anyhow, for the Feats I think we can just take the Thrall's feats and add Combat Casting, since the Jackal Lord we're using as part-inspiration has that feat.

It's arguably not the most efficient feat we could pick, but it's certainly more use than Dodge!

Skill-wise, the Thrall's SPs are divided as Balance 1 rank, Climb 0 ranks, Handle Animal 4 ranks, Hide 1 rank, Jump 1 rank, Listen 4 ranks, Move Silently 1 rank, Spot 4 ranks, Swim 1 rank.

Oh dang it, that's 17 SPs in total and the Thrall should have 20 SPs (12 for being a 1st level human plus 8 for its 4 animal HD). I'd be inclined to put another point each in Listen, Move Silently and Spot, making the Thrall's skills:

SPs: Balance 1 rank, Climb 0 ranks, Handle Animal 4 ranks, Hide 1 rank, Jump 1 rank, Listen 5 ranks, Move Silently 2 ranks, Spot 5 ranks, Swim 1 rank
Human Form: Balance +1, Climb +1, Handle Animal +3, Hide +1, Jump +2, Listen +7, Move Silently +2, Spot +7, Swim +2
Panther Form: Balance +11, Climb +13, Handle Animal +3, Hide +9* (+13 in undergrowth), Jump +16, Listen +7, Move Silently +10, Spot +7, Swim +12
Hybrid Form: Balance +11, Climb +13, Handle Animal +3, Hide +9* (+13 in undergrowth), Jump +12, Listen +7, Move Silently +10, Spot +7, Swim +12

 

[Cleon]

While we're on the subject, it's worth mentioning the Jaguar conversion in the CC should have Jump +15 instead of Jump +11 - it's missing the +4 bonus from its 40 ft. speed.

At least we're in good company, since the SRD Leopard is also missing the Jump bonus it should have from its 40 ft. speed.

I'd better add a note on the Corrections thread to remind me to fix it when we have a the CC back up and running.

 

[Cleon]

Oh dang it, that's 17 SPs in total and the Thrall should have 20 SPs (12 for being a 1st level human plus 8 for its 4 animal HD). I'd be inclined to put another point each in Listen, Move Silently and Spot, making the Thrall's skills:

SPs: Balance 1 rank, Climb 0 ranks, Handle Animal 4 ranks, Hide 1 rank, Jump 1 rank, Listen 5 ranks, Move Silently 2 ranks, Spot 5 ranks, Swim 1 rank

OK, so assuming you're OK with the above correction to the Thrall's skills, shall we give the Lord the same basic skills as above?

The Lord has 13 SPs more, so I'm thinking we should spend them on Concentration, Knowledge (nature) and Spellcraft.

Since the Lord has a +4 Wisdom bonus compared to the Thrall's +0, we could give it 3 ranks apiece in Listen and Spot and it'll still have 2 points higher skills (assuming we give it Alertness like the Thrall). Then we'd have enough for 7 SPs in Concentration and 5 apiece in Nature and Spellcraft:

SPs: Balance 1 rank, Climb 0 ranks, Concentration 7 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks, Handle Animal 4 ranks, Hide 1 rank, Jump 1 rank, Listen 3 ranks, Move Silently 2 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks, Spot 3 ranks, Swim 1 rank

Skills:
Animal/Hybrid Form: Balance +11, Climb +13, Concentration +10 (+14 with spells), Knowledge (nature) +8, Handle Animal +8, Hide +9* (+13 in undergrowth), Jump +12 [hybrid form] or +16 [animal form], Listen +9, Move Silently +10, Spellcraft +6, Spot +9, Survival +6 (+8 aboveground), Swim +12
Human Form: Balance +5, Climb +5, Concentration +10 (+14 with spells), Knowledge (nature) +8, Handle Animal +8, Hide +5, Jump +6, Listen +9, Move Silently +6, Spellcraft +6, Spot +9, Survival +6 (+8 aboveground), Swim +6

Feats: Alertness, Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (pantherclaw, pantherpaw, pantherscourge)ᴮ, Iron Willᴮ, Multiattackᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ

 

[freyar]

That AC line will work.

Yes, let's fix the Thrall's skills that way (and the Jaguar, too).

And I'll go for those skills and feats for the Lord.

 

[Cleon]

That AC line will work.

Yes, let's fix the Thrall's skills that way (and the Jaguar, too).

And I'll go for those skills and feats for the Lord.

Updating the Werepanther Thrall Working Draft.

Updating the Panther Lord Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

This looks good. Are you ok with de-red-ifying the skill bonus section?

Between the casting and the decent combat, I guess CR 8 seems ok. Do you agree?

 

[Cleon]

This looks good. Are you ok with de-red-ifying the skill bonus section?

Between the casting and the decent combat, I guess CR 8 seems ok. Do you agree?

I'll say yes to both.

Updating the Panther Lord Working Draft.

During the update I changed a few statblock references to "Animal form" to "Panther form" to match the description in its Alternate Form SQ.

Come to think of it, we should consider whether to divide the Attack and Full Attack lines by [Panther/Hybrid/Human] form like the Speed, AC and Skill lines are.

i.e.:

Attack: [Panther/Hybrid form] or claw +13 melee (1d4+5); or
[Human/Hybrid form] Pantherpaw +13 melee (2d4+7); or pantherscourge +13 melee (1d3+5/19-20 plus special); or pantherclaw +13 melee (1d4+5/18-20); or pantherclaw +12 ranged (1d4+5/18-20); or heavy crossbow +12 ranged (1d10/19-20)
Full Attack: [Panther form] 2 claws +13 melee (1d4+5) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2)
[Hybrid form] Pantherpaw +13/+8 melee (2d4+7) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2); or pantherscourge +13/+8 melee (1d3+5/19-20 plus special) and claw +11 melee (1d4+2) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2); or pantherclaw +13/+8 melee (1d4+5/18-20) and claw +11 melee (1d4+2) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2); or 2 claws +13 melee (1d4+5) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2); or pantherclaw +12 ranged (1d4+5/18-20); or heavy crossbow +12 ranged (1d10/19-20)
[Human form] Pantherpaw +13/+8 melee (2d4+7); or pantherscourge +13/+8 melee (1d3+5/19-20 plus special); or pantherclaw +13/+8 melee (1d4+5/18-20); or pantherclaw +12 ranged (1d4+5/18-20); or heavy crossbow +12 ranged (1d10/19-20)

Personally I think that makes the stat-block too messy, so I'm fine adding a reference note instead:

Attack: Pantherpaw +13 melee (2d4+7); or pantherscourge +13 melee (1d3+5/19-20 plus special); or pantherclaw +13 melee (1d4+5/18-20); or claw +13 melee (1d4+5); or pantherclaw +12 ranged (1d4+5/18-20); or heavy crossbow +12 ranged (1d10/19-20) [Hybrid form - see Alternative Form for attacks in panther/human forms]
Full Attack: Pantherpaw +13/+8 melee (2d4+7) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2); or pantherscourge +13/+8 melee (1d3+5/19-20 plus special) and claw +11 melee (1d4+2) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2); or pantherclaw +13/+8 melee (1d4+5/18-20) and claw +11 melee (1d4+2) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2); or 2 claws +13 melee (1d4+5) and bite +11 melee (1d8+2); or pantherclaw +12 ranged (1d4+5/18-20); or heavy crossbow +12 ranged (1d10/19-20) [Hybrid form - see Alternative Form for attacks in panther/human forms]

 

[freyar]

Yes, I think the second option looks a bit better, too. Let's do that.

In that case, I guess the stats are done. I don't have a good feel for the tactics on these. Think we should treat them more like a fighter or a caster?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, I think the second option looks a bit better, too. Let's do that.

Updating the Panther Lord Working Draft.

In that case, I guess the stats are done. I don't have a good feel for the tactics on these. Think we should treat them more like a fighter or a caster?

I would think they'd tend to act as casters, using their thralls as disposable troops. That said, I suspect they'd enjoy to hunt and kill opponents who they think are too weak to threaten them.