Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[freyar]

Well, I'm not terribly against doing a separate conversion.

But in that case, we should I guess drop the hybrid form, but it seems like the humanoid form is a hybrid-hybrid. That is, it has a bite attack and maybe some other special attacks. I'm not sure if strangling is supposed to be a special ability or just something like a thief could do. But we can make it a special attack; there are various garrotting rules and similar special attacks we can reference.

I'd much rather keep standard Alternate Form and change the tactics a bit, though.

 

[Cleon]

Well, I'm not terribly against doing a separate conversion.

I thought that was the idea!

But in that case, we should I guess drop the hybrid form, but it seems like the humanoid form is a hybrid-hybrid. That is, it has a bite attack and maybe some other special attacks. I'm not sure if strangling is supposed to be a special ability or just something like a thief could do. But we can make it a special attack; there are various garrotting rules and similar special attacks we can reference.

Last I checked, most humans have teeth, so it could be able to bite and punch in and still look human.

I'm not sure if strangling is supposed to be a special ability or just something like a thief could do. But we can make it a special attack; there are various garrotting rules and similar special attacks we can reference.

Well chances are it was just a throwaway line in the original and they expected the DM to use normal unarmed combat rules for the "strangling", but we don't have much in the way of abilities for the Seawolf, so I think it'd be nice to give them one or two.

I doubt it used a garotte though, since the original AD&D monster could not transform carried equipment, but only its body, so it would be stark naked and unarmed when it boards a ship. Well, I suppose if there was a bit of rope lying about it could strangle a watchman with that instead of using their hands.

I'd much rather keep standard Alternate Form and change the tactics a bit, though.

What did you have in mind? Just giving it weapons they meld into their bodies à la standard Alternate Form?

 

[freyar]

I had questions about whether these were worth a separate critter, though. Anyway....

Most humanoids don't have sharp enough teeth for bite attacks, though. Which is why I'd call it a hybrid-hybrid; it has some characteristics of a hybrid but looks mostly human.

I didn't actually mean using a garotte but cribbing from the garotting rules for a strangle attack.

Yes, I did mean standard Alternate Form.

 

[Cleon]

I had questions about whether these were worth a separate critter, though. Anyway....

Most humanoids don't have sharp enough teeth for bite attacks, though. Which is why I'd call it a hybrid-hybrid; it has some characteristics of a hybrid but looks mostly human.

We're still calling it a "humanoid form though" aren't we. If it only has wolf-sharp teeth it'll look human enough if it's careful about opening its mouth. It's certainly look a lot more like a humanoid than, say, a gnoll.

I didn't actually mean using a garotte but cribbing from the garotting rules for a strangle attack.

Those rules aren't in the SRD though, and I suspect they aren't OGL.

Come to think of it, where are the garrotting rules...

...ah, they're in Song and Silence.
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Hmm, yes I can see some of the rules would be applicable. We can easily trim it down to be more manageable. Would you care to rough something up, or should I?

Yes, I did mean standard Alternate Form.

I'm fine with making it Alternative Form. It makes it a lot easier for them to attack ships if they can carry weapons aboard. The "Strangling" attack could still be handy for silently dealing with guards.

 

[freyar]

Yes, let's still call it the "humanoid form."

Garrotting rules are also revised for 3.5e in the Class Acts section of Dragon 355. Hmmm. Something like this?

Strangle (Ex): A greater seawolf in humanoid form that pins an opponent can strangle that opponent. The strangled opponent can hold its breath for two rounds per point of Constitution and afterwards must make Constitution saves to avoid suffocating (see the suffocation rules). A strangled opponent cannot attempt to pin the seawolf, speak, or cast spells with verbal components. The seawolf cannot take any other actions usually allowed while grappling as long as it maintains its strangle.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, let's still call it the "humanoid form."

Garrotting rules are also revised for 3.5e in the Class Acts section of Dragon 355. Hmmm. Something like this?

Strangle (Ex): A greater seawolf in humanoid form that pins an opponent can strangle that opponent. The strangled opponent can hold its breath for two rounds per point of Constitution and afterwards must make Constitution saves to avoid suffocating (see the suffocation rules). A strangled opponent cannot attempt to pin the seawolf, speak, or cast spells with verbal components. The seawolf cannot take any other actions usually allowed while grappling as long as it maintains its strangle.

I'd say it needs to say how much damage the seawolf does per strangling grapple check.

Also, I don't recall strangling requiring the attacker to pin their opponent - they just need to acquire a hold (touch & grapple check, with special mods if the target has "neck armour") then make another grapple check to start throttling.

Maybe the Dragon #355 version is different. It's been a while since I read that issue.

 

[freyar]

Huh. I just read the Dragon version and didn't bother looking up the 3.0e version in Song and Silence. Anyway, we can work that out. Does it need to do damage via strangulation? Suffocation is pretty bad already.

 

[Cleon]

Huh. I just read the Dragon version and didn't bother looking up the 3.0e version in Song and Silence. Anyway, we can work that out. Does it need to do damage via strangulation? Suffocation is pretty bad already.

The problem with suffocation is the 2 rounds per Con point it rakes before it kicks in. That's just way too long to be of any use in combat.

 

[freyar]

Well, I can see a couple of options. (1) Strangle is something it does in the secret outside of normal combat. (2) If we give it Imp Grab, it can do damage just by maintaining the grapple. Or we can reduce the number of rounds before the Con checks kick in. Hmmm. Shouldn't it be Constitution checks rather than Con saves?

 

[Cleon]

Well, I can see a couple of options. (1) Strangle is something it does in the secret outside of normal combat. (2) If we give it Imp Grab, it can do damage just by maintaining the grapple. Or we can reduce the number of rounds before the Con checks kick in. Hmmm. Shouldn't it be Constitution checks rather than Con saves?

I'd be fine just using Improved Grab & Constrict with a note that the Constrict prevents the victim breathing & speaking.

Oh, and it should be Constitution checks.