Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[freyar]

I'm game to adding sickened. I'll also go along with requiring magic to end the disease. I think I'd prefer no level check, following the 1977 Basic version, but I'm open to discussion. I'm not sure, though, why you say DC 21 is auto-rolled by an 11th level cleric --- you can't take 10 on a caster level check.

Disease (Su): Ratwere plague -- bite, Fortitude DC X, incubation period X, damage X Wis. Creatures are sickened while they have Wisdome damage from this disease. Humans reduced to 0 Wis transform into Greater Wererats and regain lost Wis, Dire Rats reduced to 0 Wis transform into Ratweres and regain lost Wis, and other creatures reduced to 0 Wis die. Successful saving throws do not allow the character to recover (though they do prevent damage normally).

 

[Cleon]

I'm game to adding sickened. I'll also go along with requiring magic to end the disease. I think I'd prefer no level check, following the 1977 Basic version, but I'm open to discussion. I'm not sure, though, why you say DC 21 is auto-rolled by an 11th level cleric --- you can't take 10 on a caster level check.

I don't remember what I was thinking with "auto" bit but if we do have a level check the DC ought to be about caster level+10. That'd follow precedents like injuries inflicted by an AD&D clay golem requiring a 17th+ level cleric to heal, while those wounds require a DC 26 level check to heal in 3E.

Although that'd suggest it ought to be a DC 20 level check.

Disease (Su): Ratwere plague -- bite, Fortitude DC X, incubation period X, damage X Wis. Creatures are sickened while they have Wisdome damage from this disease. Humans reduced to 0 Wis transform into Greater Wererats and regain lost Wis, Dire Rats reduced to 0 Wis transform into Ratweres and regain lost Wis, and other creatures reduced to 0 Wis die. Successful saving throws do not allow the character to recover (though they do prevent damage normally).

That looks a good start. We can also borrow some stuff from thr Mummy Rot ability. e.g.:

Ratwere Plague (Su): Supernatural disease—slam, Fortitude DC 15, incubation period 1 minute; damage 1d6 Wis plus being sickened. The sickened condition last as long as the victim suffers Wisdom damage from this disease.

Unlike normal diseases, ratwere plague continues until the victim reaches Wisdom 0 (and is transformed into a lycanthrope or dies) or is cured by remove disease or similar magic.

Ratwere plague is a powerful curse, not a natural disease. A character attempting to cast any conjuration (healing) spell to remove the ratwere plague, or heal the Wisdom damage it causes, must succeed on a DC 20 caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the afflicted character.

Afflicted humans reduced to 0 Wisdom transform into greater wererats, afflicted dire rats reduced to 0 Wis transform into ratweres, and other creatures reduced to 0 Wisdom die.

 

[freyar]

That looks great, let's go with it.

 

[Cleon]

That looks great, let's go with it.

Updating the Ratwere Working Draft.

I believe we're done with the special abilities now.

What do you fancy for Skills and Feats?

 

[freyar]

Urr, how many ranks are there left to spend in Skills?

Before dealing with feats, what do we want to do about DR? 10/silver in rat or hybrid form would be standard. Since these are "naturally rats," how about we switch things up and either do DR 10/silver (or even 5/silver based on HD) either in all forms or in human and hybrid forms?

 

[Cleon]

Urr, how many ranks are there left to spend in Skills?

I haven't applied any skill ranks, the listed values in the Working Draft are just the creature's ability scores plus racial bonuses.

So we've got 12 skill points to apply.

Before dealing with feats, what do we want to do about DR? 10/silver in rat or hybrid form would be standard. Since these are "naturally rats," how about we switch things up and either do DR 10/silver (or even 5/silver based on HD) either in all forms or in human and hybrid forms?

That depends on the version of the BECMI Wererat. The Basic/RC version does not have weapon immunity in human form. The Night Prowler Wererat gains normal weapon immunity at higher levels (although it has a duration limit for this), but that's for a "Greater Wererat" rather than the "Lesser Wererat" we're currently converting.

They are also vulnerable to magic weapons, just like AD&D Wererats.

I'd also consider giving them DR/silver or magic instead of DR/silver to shake things up a bit. It also makes them easier to deal with, which somewhat balances out their nastier disease and better stats than a "stock" Wererat.

The big question is whether we make the DR a 5 or 10. I'm leaning towards the higher value, since they had complete weapon immunity originally.

So how about DR 10/magic or silver for the Ratwere in animal or hybrid form, and we give the Greater Wererat DR 5/silver in all forms and the Wererat Lord DR 10/silver in all forms?

 

[freyar]

That'll be fine for the DR.

Putting 3 ranks each in Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot might make sense. Or 6 each in Hide and Move Silently.

 

[Cleon]

That'll be fine for the DR.

Good-oh. I'll bear it in mind with the next update.

Putting 3 ranks each in Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot might make sense. Or 6 each in Hide and Move Silently.

Well, a standard Dire Rat has 4 skill ranks, distributed as Hide 1, Listen 1, Move Silently 1, Spot 1.

The Ratwere is a size bigger so misses out on a +4 size bonus to Hide. If we put 4 of its points into Hide to compensate, that'll leave us with 4. Maybe evenly distribute those between the Dire Rat's skills?

That maxes out its Hide skill. We could give it a higher Move Silently and reduce its sense skills so they're no better than a standard Dire Rat, I suppose.

Alternatively, we could reduce the Ratwere's sneakiness so it's as good as a Dire Rat rather than 1 point better and give it another point in either Climb & Swim OR Listen & Spot.

"Isometric Ratwere" Skill Ranks: Hide 6, Listen 2, Move Silently 2, and Spot 2.
"Stealthy Ratwere" Skill Ranks: Hide 6, Listen 1, Move Silently 4, and Spot 1.
"Athletic Ratwere" Skill Ranks: Climb 1, Hide 5, Listen 2, Move Silently 1, and Spot 2, Swim 1.
"Observant Ratwere" Skill Ranks: Hide 5, Listen 3, Move Silently 2, and Spot 3.

Which of those do you favour? I'd be OK with any of them, but I'm leaning toward the "Isometric Ratwere".

 

[freyar]

Isometric will work.

Or, if we have no better idea for the last feat, we could go for Stealthy and the Observant skill option.

 

[Cleon]

Isometric will work.

Or, if we have no better idea for the last feat, we could go for Stealthy and the Observant skill option.

Well regular rats have Stealthy in the SRD so I suppose that could fit.

It doesn't seem that useful when combined with the healthy option as its Hide and MS aren't maxed out. Its Hide only ends out 1 point higher than the Isometric or Sneaky options.

The SRD Wererat has Dodge but that's a useless feat.

How about Track like the Giant Zakharan Rat?