Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

Cleon

Legend
I have tried to write a response to this several times and kept running out of time to do it...

I will agree that the ratwere is finished. Looks good.

I also like the "Dire Lycanthrope" idea for the Greater Wererat, but I wouldn't say that they are applications of the dire lycanthrope template with the rules broken. I'd just start with the dire lycanthrope template as a baseline but make them a separate monster. I do like most of your ideas for them.

Good. I might as well start statting one out with the standard Warrior 1 Human as the base humanoid.

Incidentally, are we calling them "Greater Wererats" or "Greater Ratweres" or something else?

They're genuine lycanthropes, since they're humans infected with a shapechanging curse, so I was going to use "Greater Wererat". That's the name used in the Dungeon Magazine version, so we have a precedent.
 

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Cleon

Legend
Greater Wererat Working Draft

Lycanthrope, Greater Wererat

Greater Wererat, Human Form

Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 3d10+12 (34 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 natural, +2 leather, +1 buckler), touch 10, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+5
Attack: Longsword +5 melee (1d8+1/19–20) or heavy crossbow +4 ranged (1d10/19–20)
Full Attack: Longsword +5 melee (1d8+1/19–20) or heavy crossbow +4 ranged (1d10/19–20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Summon ratkin
Special Qualities: Alternate form, damage reduction 5/magic or silver, low-light vision, rodent empathy, scent, speak with rats
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +5
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +9, Handle Animal +3* (+7 vs. rodents), Hide +8, Intimidate +3* (+7 vs. rodents), Listen +5, Move Silently +6, Spot +5, Swim +9
Feats: Alertness (B), Improved Initiative, Iron Will (B), Multiattack (B), Stealthy (B), Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Urban and underground
Organization: Solitary, pack (2-8), infestation (2-8 plus 4-16 ratweres), troupe (2-8 plus 11-20 dire rats and rat swarms) or colony (2-16 plus 6-24 ratweres plus 2-40 dire rats and rat swarms)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +3

Greater Wererat, Dire Rat Form
Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 3d10+12 (34 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7
Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d6+4 plus ratwere plague)
Full Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d6+4 plus ratwere plague)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Ratwere plague, summon ratkin
Special Qualities: Alternate form, damage reduction 10/magic or silver, low-light vision, rodent empathy, scent, speak with rats
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +12, Handle Animal +3* (+7 vs. rodents), Hide +11, Intimidate +3* (+7 vs. rodents), Listen +5 , Move Silently +9, Spot +5, Swim +12
Feats: Alertness (B), Improved Initiative, Iron Will (B), Multiattack (B), Stealthy (B), Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Urban and underground
Organization: Solitary, pack (2-8), infestation (2-8 plus 4-16 ratweres), troupe (2-8 plus 11-20 dire rats and rat swarms) or colony (2-16 plus 6-24 ratweres plus 2-40 dire rats and rat swarms)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +3

Greater Wererat, Hybrid Form
Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 3d10+12 (34 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7
Attack: Longsword +7 melee (1d8+3/19–20) or bite +8 melee (1d6+4 plus ratwere plague) or heavy crossbow +7 ranged (1d10/19–20)
Full Attack: Longsword +7 melee (1d8+3/19–20) and bite +6 melee (1d6+1 plus ratwere plague); or heavy crossbow +7 ranged (1d10/19–20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Ratwere plague, summon ratkin
Special Qualities: Alternate form, damage reduction 10/magic or silver, low-light vision, rodent empathy, scent, speak with rats
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +12, Handle Animal +3* (+7 vs. rodents), Hide +11, Intimidate +3* (+7 vs. rodents), Listen +5 , Move Silently +9, Spot +5, Swim +12
Feats: Alertness (B), Improved Initiative, Iron Will (B), Multiattack (B), Stealthy (B), Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Urban and underground
Organization: Solitary, pack (2-8), infestation (2-8 plus 4-16 ratweres), troupe (2-8 plus 11-20 dire rats and rat swarms) or colony (2-16 plus 6-24 ratweres plus 2-40 dire rats and rat swarms)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +3

Greater wererats are close kin to common wererats and ratweres. They are infected with a potent form of lycanthropy, the ratwere plague, which transforms humans and dire rats into lycanthropes and is fatal to most other creatures. While they shun the common wererat, greater wererats often rule colonies of ratweres, rats and dire rats. Greater wererats casually devour their rodent minions whenever food runs short, and even a gifted ratwere is looked down upon as little better than a slave.

Combat
Greater wererats use their animal or human forms to spy on enemies and set up ambushes, but favor their hybrid form for fighting. Given time, they use summon rodents to call rat allies to send into combat. Most greater wererats treat their rodent and ratwere underlings as disposable chattels, and are unlikely to risk their own skin to protect them.

Alternate Form (Su): A greater wererat can assume a bipedal hybrid form or the form of a man-sized dire rat.

Ratwere Plague (Su): Supernatural disease—slam, Fortitude DC 15, incubation period 1 minute; damage 1d6 Wis plus being sickened. The sickened condition last as long as the victim suffers Wisdom damage from this disease.

Unlike normal diseases, ratwere plague continues until the victim reaches Wisdom 0 (and is transformed into a lycanthrope or dies) or is cured by remove disease or similar magic.

Ratwere plague is a powerful curse, not a natural disease. A character attempting to cast any conjuration (healing) spell to remove the ratwere plague, or heal the Wisdom damage it causes, must succeed on a DC 20 caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the afflicted character.

Afflicted humans reduced to 0 Wisdom transform into greater wererats, afflicted dire rats reduced to 0 Wis transform into ratweres, and other creatures reduced to 0 Wisdom die.

Rodent Empathy: A greater wererat has a +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against any animal or magical beast of the rodent family, including rats, dire rats and ratweres.

Speak With Rats (Su): A greater wererat can communicate with rats and dire rats as if it had a permanent speak with animals spell. It can also use this ability to speak with ratweres and other wererats using this ability, which sounds like rodent squeaks and chirps.

Summon Ratkin (Su): Once per day, as a standard action, a greater wererat can call forth 1 rat swarm or a pack of 1d6+1 dire rats. These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve the wererat for up to 1 hour.

A greater wererat's summoning ability increases as it gains additional hit dice. It can summon larger numbers of rodents, and at 8 Hit Dice it gains the ability to summon ratweres. See the Greater Wererat Summoning Table for details.

A greater wererat can only use summon ratkin on ratweres it personally created by infecting a dire rat with ratwere plague. If no such ratweres exist, the greater wererat can only summon normal or dire rats.

Greater Wererat Summoning Table
Hit Dice
Ratweres
Rat Swarms
Dire Rats
4-511d6+1
6-71d32d6
8-91d31d4+13d6
10-111d4+12d64d8
12+2d63d65d10
Skills: Greater wererats have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks and a +8 racial bonus on Climb and Swim checks. Greater wererats can use their Dexterity modifier or their Strength modifier for Climb and Swim checks, whichever is better.

In rat or hybrid-form, a greater wererat gains a +8 racial bonus on Balance checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb and Swim checks, even if rushed or threatened. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

Feats: Greater Wererats gain Alertness, Iron Will, Multiattack, Stealthy and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats.

The greater wererat presented here is based on a 1st-level human warrior, using the following base ability scores: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

Originally appeared in Dungeon #88 (1988).

Skill Breakdown
Human Warrior Skills (12 SPs): Handle Animal 4, Hide (cross-class) 2, Intimidate 4
Ratwere Skills (6 SPs): Listen 3, Spot 3
 
Last edited:

Cleon

Legend
Okay, I've posted an initial draft for the Greater Wererat. I added the SRD normal rat's +4 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently to the creature because it seemed the easiest way to give it Stealth skills comparable to the Ratwere.

Incidentally, the initial Draft of the Ratwere had those racial bonuses too but I didn't include them in our final skills so I've just cut them from the Working Draft.

I've also added a pan-rodent version of the standard lycanthrope Animal Empathy power to them, since it seemed appropriate.

The main Xs left are the Damage Reduction in their various forms and it needs to have a 1st level Feat and a human Bonus Feat.

Any ideas?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I like what you've got. I also don't see a difference between the Ratwere Plague here and in the ratwere draft; I know you mentioned the slight difference in the two original monsters, but I think I prefer thematically having them be the same.

Unless you want to make the DR HD-dependent, I'd go with 10/magic or silver like the ratwere. Or maybe magic and silver.
 

Cleon

Legend
I like what you've got. I also don't see a difference between the Ratwere Plague here and in the ratwere draft; I know you mentioned the slight difference in the two original monsters, but I think I prefer thematically having them be the same.

There isn't any difference in the Ratwere Plague. It's the Wererat Lord (the next lycanthrope on my to-do list) that carries a different form of Lycanthropy.

Unless you want to make the DR HD-dependent, I'd go with 10/magic or silver like the ratwere. Or maybe magic and silver.

Magic and Silver seems too strong and is unsupported by the original monster.

The main question is do we let them have some DR when in human form like the Night Howler version of the greater lycanthrope?

If so, do we make it temporary like in that source or fixed - maybe DR 10/magic or silver in animal or hybrid form and DR 5/magic or silver in human form?

Alternatively, we could give it DR 5/silver in animal or hybrid form (like a standard infected lycanthrope) and DR 5/magic or silver in human form.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Ahh, I must have misread the lycanthropy bit.

I think I like DR 10/magic or silver in animal or hybrid form and DR 5/magic or silver in human form.
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Power Attack would actually make some sense, I think. Stealthy would seem thematic, too.

CR 4 is probably ok in comparison to the wereboar.

I suppose org can be similar to the ratwere, or perhaps they can be mixed in with ratwere groups.
 

Cleon

Legend
Power Attack would actually make some sense, I think. Stealthy would seem thematic, too.

The SRD normal Rat has Stealthy, so it was one of the feats I was considering.

Power Attack would be effective, but it just doesn't seem terribly "ratty". Both the Dire Rat and Rat have Weapon Finesse to increase their natural attack modifier. Our Greater Wererat inherits that as a bonus feat, but its Str and Dex values mean it doesn't actually get any benefit from it.

How about Weapon Focus (bite) to improve its bite attack?

CR 4 is probably ok in comparison to the wereboar.

Agreed. It looked more like strong CR 3, but I went for a 4 to distinguish it from the Ratwere.

I suppose org can be similar to the ratwere, or perhaps they can be mixed in with ratwere groups.

Yes, we should allow for a group with both ratweres and greater wererats.

Organization: Solitary, pack (2-8), infestation (2-8 plus 4-16 ratweres), troupe (2-8 plus 11-20 dire rats and rat swarms) or colony (2-16 plus 6-24 ratweres plus 2-40 dire rats and rat swarms)

Hmm... that suggests we could add those "combined wererodents" groups to the Ratweres too.

e.g.:

Ratwere Organization: Solitary, family (2-5), pack (6-24), infestation (4-16 plus 2-8 greater wererats), troupe (2-24 plus 2-40 dire rats and rat swarms) or colony (6-24 plus 2-16 greater ratweres plus 2-40 dire rats and rat swarms)
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Weapon Focus (bite) and Stealthy work for me.

I like those org lines.

Tactics: Greater wererats prefer to fight in hybrid form, biting opportunistically.

I have to admit I don't have much for these. They're pretty simple.
 

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