Cleon
Legend
If you don't fancy Track I'd also consider Improved Initiative or Weapon Focus (bite). Of those two I like Improved Initiative better, since their attacks are already pretty good.
Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk
If you don't fancy Track I'd also consider Improved Initiative or Weapon Focus (bite). Of those two I like Improved Initiative better, since their attacks are already pretty good.
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
Isometric skills with Imp Init sounds good.
OK, skills, feats, and DR are now agreed upon. As for CR, these seem considerably better than the CR 2 bugbear or wererat and possibly even better than a CR 3 werewolf, so I'd go at least CR 3. Treasure, alignment, and advancement are fine with me.
OK, skills, feats, and DR are now agreed upon. As for CR, these seem considerably better than the CR 2 bugbear or wererat and possibly even better than a CR 3 werewolf, so I'd go at least CR 3. Treasure, alignment, and advancement are fine with me.
Cleon
Legend
Well a Dire Rat advanced a size category would get +1 Challenge Rating, so CR 3 makes sense. Especially considering their nastier "curse".
What about Level Adjustment - LA +3 like the SRD Wererat?
Updating the Ratwere Working Draft.
Cleon
Legend
By the way, I'm wondering whether it wouldn't be better to split out the "Human-Form" stats since that might make it easier to parse, e.g.:
Ratwere
Medium Magical Beast (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 3d10+9 (25 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3 plus ratwere plague);
—Hybrid-form: Shortsword +6 melee (1d6+2/19-20), or bite +6 melee (1d6+2 plus ratwere plague), or dagger +6 melee/ranged (1d4+2/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3 plus ratwere plague);
—Hybrid-form: Shortsword +6 melee (1d6+2/19-20) and bite +1 melee (1d6+1 plus ratwere plague), or dagger +6 melee (1d4+2/19-20) and bite +1 melee (1d6+1 plus ratwere plague)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Ratwere plague, summon rats
Special Qualities: Alternate form, dire, damage reduction 10/magic or silver, low-light vision, scent, speak with rats
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 11
Skills: Balance +11, Climb +11, Hide +9, Listen +5, Move Silently +5, Spot +5, Swim +11
Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Iron Will (B), Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Urban and underground
Organization: Solitary, family (2-5), pack (6-24) or troupe (2-24 plus 2-40 dire rats and rat swarms)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 4-9 HD (Medium) or by character class
Level Adjustment: +X
Ratwere, Human Form
Ratwere
Medium Magical Beast (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 3d10+9 (25 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3 plus ratwere plague);
—Hybrid-form: Shortsword +6 melee (1d6+2/19-20), or bite +6 melee (1d6+2 plus ratwere plague), or dagger +6 melee/ranged (1d4+2/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3 plus ratwere plague);
—Hybrid-form: Shortsword +6 melee (1d6+2/19-20) and bite +1 melee (1d6+1 plus ratwere plague), or dagger +6 melee (1d4+2/19-20) and bite +1 melee (1d6+1 plus ratwere plague)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Ratwere plague, summon rats
Special Qualities: Alternate form, dire, damage reduction 10/magic or silver, low-light vision, scent, speak with rats
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 11
Skills: Balance +11, Climb +11, Hide +9, Listen +5, Move Silently +5, Spot +5, Swim +11
Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Iron Will (B), Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Urban and underground
Organization: Solitary, family (2-5), pack (6-24) or troupe (2-24 plus 2-40 dire rats and rat swarms)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 4-9 HD (Medium) or by character class
Level Adjustment: +X
Ratwere, Human Form
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 13 (+3 Dex), touch 13, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Shortsword +6 melee (1d6+2/19-20), or dagger +6 melee/ranged (1d4+2/19-20)
Full Attack: Shortsword +6 melee (1d6+2/19-20), or dagger +6 melee/ranged (1d4+2/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Summon rats
Special Qualities: Alternate form, dire, low-light vision, scent, speak with rats
Skills: Balance +3, Climb +11, Hide +9, Listen +5, Move Silently +5, Spot +5, Swim +11
Armor Class: 13 (+3 Dex), touch 13, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Shortsword +6 melee (1d6+2/19-20), or dagger +6 melee/ranged (1d4+2/19-20)
Full Attack: Shortsword +6 melee (1d6+2/19-20), or dagger +6 melee/ranged (1d4+2/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Summon rats
Special Qualities: Alternate form, dire, low-light vision, scent, speak with rats
Skills: Balance +3, Climb +11, Hide +9, Listen +5, Move Silently +5, Spot +5, Swim +11
Cleon
Legend
Since you've suggested you'd like to finish off one of our "batches" so we can get something posted on the CC, I'll post a proposal for the flavour text and tactics.
* * *
A giant rat nearly as big as a man. Its form flows and the "rat" develops disturbingly human-shaped limbs, allowing it to stand on two legs and wield weapons in its furry hands.
Ratweres are dire rats infected with a form of lycanthropy that enables them to assume a human or half-human form. This disease, the "ratwere plague", is fatal to all living creatures except for dire rats and humans.
Ratweres live in places were both rats and humans can be found – sewers, rubbish heaps and the like. Their lives are a constant struggle for survival with frequent fights over resources and authority. A ratwere's lair normally contains ordinary rats and dire rats, for ratweres have the power to summon and control such vermin. Ratweres view normal rats as disposable cannon fodder and emergency rations. They show little more consideration to their own kind, backstabbing rivals and cannibalizing the sick or elderly. Humanoid flesh is a prized delicacy, but ratweres are cautious enough to mostly prey on people unlikely to be missed.
A typical ratwere weighs about 120 pounds and is 5 or 5 feet long in its natural giant rat form, or a little over 5 feet tall in human or hybrid form.
Ratweres speak the language of whatever humans they live nearest to, usually Common.
Combat
Ratweres prefer ambushes. They usually summon rats to soften up or distract their enemies. Most ratweres value their own lives far more highly than their allies, so rarely risk themselves to aid each other. A ratwere will often flee if injured.
Cleon
Legend
Updating the Ratwere Working Draft.
By the way, did we discuss Advancement? I put in the standard base HD × 3 Advancement, but since we're basing this on a Dire Rat and the Dire Rat's HD cap out at 6, we could have given in HD 5-6 (Medium).
That seems a bit stingy for a "magical super rat" though, so I'm happy sticking to HD 4-9.
So let's declare this Ratwere finished and proceed to the next beastie.
Cleon
Legend
Okay, it's time for the Greater Wererat.
To recap:
A Greater Wererat is what you get when a human contracts the Ratwere Plague from being bitten by a Ratwere (the BECMI 'lesser wererat') or another Greater Wererat.
They have the same basic stats as the normal BECMI Wererat (e.g. the Ratwere) and retain the class abilities of their human form when in rat or hybrid form if they are superior to the wererat stat.
They have all the powers of BECMI wererats.
PC4 - Night Howlers has greater wererats as a "monster class" which gives them additional powers as they level up:
At 3rd level they gain accelerated daily natural healing - 1d4 plus 1 point per 3 levels while resting instead of the usual 2/day while resting.
The number of rats and giant rats they can summon improves with level, and at 5th level they gain the ability to summon other wererats.
Finally, at 7th+ level a PC4 greater wererat can give itself immunity to normal weapons while in human form, but only for a limited period (3 turns plus 1 turn per 2 levels above 7th).
To recap:
A Greater Wererat is what you get when a human contracts the Ratwere Plague from being bitten by a Ratwere (the BECMI 'lesser wererat') or another Greater Wererat.
They have the same basic stats as the normal BECMI Wererat (e.g. the Ratwere) and retain the class abilities of their human form when in rat or hybrid form if they are superior to the wererat stat.
They have all the powers of BECMI wererats.
PC4 - Night Howlers has greater wererats as a "monster class" which gives them additional powers as they level up:
At 3rd level they gain accelerated daily natural healing - 1d4 plus 1 point per 3 levels while resting instead of the usual 2/day while resting.
The number of rats and giant rats they can summon improves with level, and at 5th level they gain the ability to summon other wererats.
Finally, at 7th+ level a PC4 greater wererat can give itself immunity to normal weapons while in human form, but only for a limited period (3 turns plus 1 turn per 2 levels above 7th).
Cleon
Legend
While we're doing the Greater Wererat I think it's important to remember that our next (and, hopefully, final) rat lycanthrope conversion is going to be the Wererat Lord, so we want to make sure to have something to distinguish the two.
The main power of the Wererat Lord is that it can control infected wererats it has created and summon packs of giant rats.
Secondly, while standard AD&D Wererats specifies that it takes a silver or magic weapons to hurt them in ratman and giant rat forms, the Wererat Lord just has "hit only by silver or +1 or better weapons" which implies such weapons are needed while they are in human form too.
They also have slightly better AC and Intelligence than a standard Wererat and live up to 200 years.
Oh, and there's one more thing - the lycanthropy disease Wererat Lords inflict doesn't kill humanoids who aren't humans, but turns them into wererat slaves like it does humans.
So, for our "Greater Wererat" I'm thinking we should keep the improved healing and DR for limited periods abilities but not have them be able to summon wererats, so we make wererat domination a Wererat Lord exclusive.
For the Greater Wererat stats, I think we should apply the Dire Lycanthrope template on a human plus a Ratwere, maybe with a note that Greater Wererats can break the "of the animal type" rule for the base creature, then add a couple of special abilities.
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I have tried to write a response to this several times and kept running out of time to do it...
I will agree that the ratwere is finished. Looks good.
I also like the "Dire Lycanthrope" idea for the Greater Wererat, but I wouldn't say that they are applications of the dire lycanthrope template with the rules broken. I'd just start with the dire lycanthrope template as a baseline but make them a separate monster. I do like most of your ideas for them.
Incidentally, are we calling them "Greater Wererats" or "Greater Ratweres" or something else?
I will agree that the ratwere is finished. Looks good.
I also like the "Dire Lycanthrope" idea for the Greater Wererat, but I wouldn't say that they are applications of the dire lycanthrope template with the rules broken. I'd just start with the dire lycanthrope template as a baseline but make them a separate monster. I do like most of your ideas for them.
Incidentally, are we calling them "Greater Wererats" or "Greater Ratweres" or something else?
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