D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[Undrave]

It counts as a measure if WOTC. constantly creates new spells whenever they can stick one in.

I guess there is a benefit of their slow release of books and downloadables: fewer spells.

And they're gonna be releasing Strixhaven, an entire SETTING BOOK dedicated to casters.

You know we're never gonna get THAT for martial characters...

 

[Vaalingrade]

And they're gonna be releasing Strixhaven, an entire SETTING BOOK dedicated to casters.

You know we're never gonna get THAT for martial characters...

To be fair, since Strixhaven is Not Winx club as much as it is Not Harry Potter, there's like a whole bodyguard path at the school.

I'm hoping it'll be half an excuse for some Fantastic Martials instead of boring mundane ones.

 

[Don Durito]

If you require low stats to be roleplayed, intelligence stops being the go to dump stat.

What you mean?. Bruk is fun character. Bruk have lots of personality. Bruk way of talking very dist..,very disctin.., very special. Is real roleplaying!

Bruk life of party. Bruk make people laugh. People always laughing around Bruk. Except when Bruk chop head with Greatsword.

Seriously, players who can live with playing Bruk will drop Intelligence. Players who don't want to play Bruk will have Con 12, Int 10 instead. There are many classes that simply cannot afford to put points into intelligence.

 

[Undrave]

To be fair, since Strixhaven is Not Winx club as much as it is Not Harry Potter, there's like a whole bodyguard path at the school.

I'm hoping it'll be half an excuse for some Fantastic Martials instead of boring mundane ones.

I guess Martials get to sit at the kids' table, but that's better than nothing

Maybe what we need is a setting with 'Shadow of the Colossus' type enemies with rules on climbing them to reach their weakspots. Now, there's something that would probably make Barbarians and Champions happy... Doesn't MTG have a setting with giant monsters? Maybe add some rules for Monster Hunter style armour and weapon fabrication so the martial types can customize their gear with the stuff they kill and their tool proficiencies.

 

[Minigiant]

And they're gonna be releasing Strixhaven, an entire SETTING BOOK dedicated to casters.

You know we're never gonna get THAT for martial characters...

It could happen.
But it would be more work that WOTC is willing to do ATM. 5e sales would have to drip before they truly get energetic with martials for a whole setting.

To be fair, since Strixhaven is Not Winx club as much as it is Not Harry Potter, there's like a whole bodyguard path at the school.

I'm hoping it'll be half an excuse for some Fantastic Martials instead of boring mundane ones.

Sadly the bodyguards in Strixhaven are casters too.
It would be more likely that weapon spells be added and WOTC accidentally makes bards better warriors than fighters.

 

[Maxperson]

What you mean?. Bruk is fun character. Bruk have lots of personality. Bruk way of talking very dist..,very disctin.., very special. Is real roleplaying!

Bruk life of party. Bruk make people laugh. People always laughing around Bruk. Except when Bruk chop head with Greatsword.

Seriously, players who can live with playing Bruk will drop Intelligence. Players who don't want to play Bruk will have Con 12, Int 10 instead. There are many classes that simply cannot afford to put points into intelligence.

My experience is that players like to contribute their smart ideas and it can be frustrating to play a PC that wouldn't come up with so many.

 

[FrogReaver]

My experience is that players like to contribute their smart ideas and it can be frustrating to play a PC that wouldn't come up with so many.

That's when you have the dumb character come up with the great idea based on the worst reasoning possible.

 

[Don Durito]

My experience is that players like to contribute their smart ideas and it can be frustrating to play a PC that wouldn't come up with so many.

Yes. It can be. But that's why I tend to interpret Intellgence as formal education.

Because Intelligence is just not something a Barbarian or a Paladin or a Monk or Ranger can afford. This is not the player's choice (other than to play that class), it is the system's choice to give Intelligence no role for those classes.

And even if you make some sacrifices as say a Fighter (which you can just about get away with) and take 14 in Intelligence, that's only 15% better than the 'dump' at 8, and you will see that score effectively go backwards as you level up.

So if someone wants to play a very smart Barbarian with an Intelligence of 8 then I let them. They won't get the somewhat meager mechanical benefits of that, but what does it matter?

The issue with the game is not that players choose to dump Int. The issue is that Intelligence is not a required ability score for many players.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes. It can be. But that's why I tend to interpret Intellgence as formal education.

I can see that. I go by what the book says, though. Int is the ability to reason and remember things. While it may be 15% if you only look at +'s, it's the difference between highly intelligent and low intelligence.

Because Intelligence is just not something a Barbarian or a Paladin or a Monk or Ranger can afford. This is not the player's choice (other than to play that class), it is the system's choice to give Intelligence no role for those classes.

This is the most forgiving edition statwise that I've played. 4e might have been more forgiving, but I don't really know as I didn't play it. As far as I'm concerned, if you have a 10 or better, I don't care what you come up with. Below 10 and you're mentally slow. Many groups also roll for stats, which means that you'll have more classes with a decent Int score that don't need it.

The issue with the game is not that players choose to dump Int. The issue is that Intelligence is not a required ability score for many players.

Yeah. That's what makes it tempting as a dump stat.

 

[Don Durito]

I can see that. I go by what the book says, though. Int is the ability to reason and remember things. While it may be 15% if you only look at +'s, it's the difference between highly intelligent and low intelligence.

This is the most forgiving edition statwise that I've played. 4e might have been more forgiving, but I don't really know as I didn't play it. As far as I'm concerned, if you have a 10 or better, I don't care what you come up with. Below 10 and you're mentally slow. Many groups also roll for stats, which means that you'll have more classes with a decent Int score that don't need it.

Yeah. That's what makes it tempting as a dump stat.

Why is the difference between 8 and 10 such a massive gulf? At 8 you suck. At 10 you suck. Why does suckling slightly more make such a big difference? If I go to 12 can I play my character as a genius?

And actually it's not that forgiving. If you just played at level 1 it would be very forgiving. If you removed ASIs it would be pretty forgiving. But the ASI's ruin everything, because you are expected to increase your good score to 20 and the math is based around that. A Valor bard who puts a 14 in Strength and a 16 in Charisma is not doing to badly. By the time he gets to 14 Str and 20 Charisma he has fallen behind. (He could instead go 16 Str and 18 Charisma, and maybe he should, but the fact remains that everything else is dropping back).

3e had scaling issues as well, but at least it was slower. You only raised a score by 2 over 8 levels rather than 4. 4e was less forgiving but, due to the way it worked, you could always keep at least two ability scores on an even scale - so that Valour Bard would be raising his Strength as well.

Let's slightly shift perspective on the game. At level 5 proficency Bonus jumps to +4 rather than + 3 and at level 9 it jumpts to +6. Now at level 4 and 8 instead of getting a bonus 2 points to an ability score the player instead chooses five scores to drop by 2. The maths of the game is basically the same (at least for things you are proficient in).