Spellcasting Prodigy - Whats the beef?

[Zerovoid]

Well, I take it for every primary spellcaster that I'm allowed to take it for. If you are trying to min-max a spellcaster, its all about your DC, and this feat is the only way besides Spell Focus and Improved Spell focus to boost your DC. Spellcasters don't need that many feats, just Spellcasting Prodigy, Spell Focus, Improved Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, and Improved Spell Penetration.

There are other ways to make a good spellcaster. Certainly Empower Spell, and the craft feats are good choices, but I think that casting instant death spells with saving throws that the enemies can't possibly make is probably the most powerful option.

If you don't take this at first level, then you might be kicking yourself at 15th. Any other feat you can come back and take later. Even if you're in a game that won't go that far, it you're human, and have the bonus feat to burn, then use Spellcasting Prodigy to bump your primary stat up to 20 so you have an extra 1st level spell.

 

[Nightfall]

I would like to point out Zerovoid, that Spell Pentration and Improved Spell Pentration only work for overcoming SPELL resistance. It doesn't affect the DC as far as I know.

 

[Darkness]

Take your primary spellcasting stat and give it a +2 bonus when you use it to determine anything spell related.

Basically you get a few more spells, can cast spells of a higher max level, and your DC goes up by 2.

I have to admit to not knowing the exact wording of the feat either... ...

Doesn't it give you an effective +2 to your INT/CHA for casting purposes? I agree, it seems there wouldn't be many spellcasters who would not therefore be "prodigies;" and that's a little silly.
...

It doesn't let you cast spells "of a higher max level" and thus, isn't quite as much as a +2 to Int/Cha/Wis for casting purposes.

... The fact that they put so many restrictions on who can take it (DM approval necessary, only at character creation) ...

No GM approval necessary, I think.

 

[Oni]

There are plenty of ways to boost the DC of your spells, especially in FR. Tattoo Focus, Shadow Weave Magic, Red Wizard of Thay PrC, Archmage PrC, Shadow Adept PrC, the Elemental Savant from T&B, Mage-Killer from MofF, Fox's Cunning, Statboosting items, Bonuses from wish spells, and if you can't make an item to boost your int I don't see why you can't make one thats sole function is to boost your spellcasting DC's and for less cost. Not to mention there are spells that can make it harder for you opponent to save against your spells, such as Mind Fog, Enervation, Energy Drain, and Spell Enhancer. Because there are so many things you can do to make your spells harder to save against, I personally think your better off going for variety over that extra 5%.


[Edit: I personally think that in general it is too easy to save against spells, and you only have so many per day. I think it is folly to depend overly much on save or die spells.]

 

[Celebrim]

I think it is only a no brainer for Human spellcasters, and maybe not even then. Because it can only be taken at first level, you are making a tough choice between taking it and taking Spell Focus, Combat Casting, or Improved Initiative (and possibly even Toughness) - all of which have a better chance of getting you alive to 3rd level than Spell Casting Prodigy does. But, if you have the extra feat to spend at 1st level, it provides a definate boost to your power - especially if you are willing to wait on it (which is somewhat of a contridiction if you think about it). It is particularly nice for anything but a specialist wizard (for whom Spell Focus followed by Greater Spell Focus is probably munchier), because it gives the slight boost to all your spells.

However, it remains that munchiest of all is Spell Casting Prodigy, Spell Focus, and Greater Spell Focus together with alot of spells of the appropriate school. (Save this, loser!)

I've never once seen it used as a role playing tool, and can only imagine how that would work. "Yes, I _am_ amazingly cool. I'm as cool as Drizzt. Woohoo!", I suspect. I suppose the ocasional conversation could come up about being a veritable Harry Potter in your youth, but that would get old quick.

 

[Caliban]

Take your primary spellcasting stat and give it a +2 bonus when you use it to determine anything spell related.

Basically you get a few more spells, can cast spells of a higher max level, and your DC goes up by 2.

That's wrong.

It will grant you one more spell per day (and then only at higher levels) unless your spellcasting stat is already an 18 or 20, in which case you get one extra 1st or 2nd level spell.

It will not allow you cast spells of a higher level. It only affects spells per day and save DC's, it doesn't add to your attribute when determining the highest level spell you can cast.

And it only increases your spell DC's by +1.

 

[dagger]

There are several feats in T&B that are must have for min/max wizards as well.

YOUR spellcaster only need that small list of feats you bring up. I like my mage to have those and other feats like Maximize and Energy Subsitution.

Well, I take it for every primary spellcaster that I'm allowed to take it for. If you are trying to min-max a spellcaster, its all about your DC, and this feat is the only way besides Spell Focus and Improved Spell focus to boost your DC. Spellcasters don't need that many feats, just Spellcasting Prodigy, Spell Focus, Improved Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, and Improved Spell Penetration.

 

[Dagger75]

I like spellcasting prodigy

I have the FR book and durning character creation both the players in my group took this feat. The Druid and the Cleric, we have no wizards or sorcerer. And as a DM I don't even realize it. Ohh instead of a 15 DC on First level spells its a 16. And a few extra spells not a big deal. ALSO all of my evil NPC spellcasters are spell casting prodigies so it evens out.

 

[Celebrim]

Oni: I whole heartedly disagree that it is too easy to save vs. spells. It is quite easy to design reasonable PC or NPC spell casters whose 9th level spells would have save DC's of 30+. An extreme case might be 18 in prime attribute, raised to 23 by attribute advancement, raised to 28 by inherent bonuses (via wish), raised to 34 via enhancement bonuses (via an item), plus Spell Casting Prodigy, Spell Focus, and Greater Spell Focus. This gives a save DC vs. 9th level spells (in one school) of 36. Supposing this is a save or die spell, if you have less than a +16 Fort bonus, you die on anything but a natural 20. If you have less than a +26 Fort bonus, you are likely to die. Supposing this is an enchantment, if you have less than a +16 Will bonus, then you are my slave. If this spell is a save or die or mass save or die spell (like Wail of the Banshee or Weird) or a potent enchantment (like a Heightened Dominate Person or even a Heightened Chain Dominate Person), then its likely to be curtains for just about any group (PC or NPC) that isn't prepared.

Dagger: You mention your fondness for Maximize Spell. I thought it was generally agreed that Maximize Spell is a rather weak feat? Please explain how Maximize spell is letting you min/max vs. my Necromancer (or Enchanter or Illusionist) with base saves of 36 vs. his 9th level Necromatic spells?

 

[Hammerhead]

That +1 to DC is basically the reason it's so powerful.

Disintegrate save DC for a 12th level, 20 Int wiz (very average for that level): 10 + 5 (Int) + 6 (spell level) + 2 (Spell Focus, Transmutation) + 2 (Greater SF, Transmutation) + 1 (Spellcasting Prodigy) = 26. A fighter with a +16 Fort save has a 50% chance of failing right there. Because there's relatively few effects that influence save DCs, and the consequences for failure can be great, feats like Spell Focus and Spellcasting Prodigy are highly valuable. Basically if you're going to be casting offensive spells a lot, you want this feat (and Bloodline of Fire if you can get it).

On the other hand, the wizard could take Skill Focus: Spellcraft and set himself up for Archmage levels, which could have a much more dramatic impact on save DCs.

With Archmages, Red Wizards, Shadow Adepts, etc all running around with bonus spell power +3, at a min, I don't see an additional +1 as that big of a deal. Greater Spell Focus has a much greater impact than SPC.

I noticed the bonus spell (yeah, another buff spell for someone else!) much more often than +1 to save DCs when playing my cleric. I would have rather gotten persistent spell earlier, or learned Spell Penetration.