D&D 5E Spells as combat weapons.

[Giltonio_Santos]

How are you using them?

- Does a natural 20 in a Ray of Frost attack triggers a critical hit?

- A multiclass rogue/mage should be able to sneak attack with a Scorching Ray?

- A multiclass ranger/druid with archery as his fighting style gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls with Fire Seeds?

I've seen nothing in the rules about it, but I'm inclined to think that the answer should be yes in all cases. I mean, if you're using a spell to attack and deal damage, it should be considered a weapon for effects like the ones I described above. Any thoughts?

Cheers,

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

How are you using them?

- Does a natural 20 in a Ray of Frost attack triggers a critical hit?

Yes. You can even take Improved Critical (ray) and Weapon Focus (ray). Not Far Shot though, you need metamagic for that.

- A multiclass rogue/mage should be able to sneak attack with a Scorching Ray?

Yes, but I think sneak attack only applies to one ray. I'm not 100% sure of that, and that might have been in an FAQ or errata to prevent abuse.

- A multiclass ranger/druid with archery as his fighting style gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls with Fire Seeds?

Not unless you launch those seeds by bow. A throwing weapon isn't using archery. However, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Favored Enemy, etc, all apply to using Fire Seeds.

 

[Sage Genesis]

[MENTION=1165](Psi)SeveredHead[/MENTION] This is a 5e thread. Judging by the game elements you provided, I think you're answering it for a 3e context instead.



Does a natural 20 in a Ray of Frost attack triggers a critical hit?

Yes. The How To Play pdf explains in the Attacks section that its rules are for both weapon and spell attacks.


A multiclass rogue/mage should be able to sneak attack with a Scorching Ray?

Yes, but you still only get to deal sneak attack damage once per turn so it would apply to only one ray, not all of them.


A multiclass ranger/druid with archery as his fighting style gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls with Fire Seeds?

No. Fire Seeds are, despite being physical objects, part of a spell. They are not ranged weapons.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Does a natural 20 in a Ray of Frost attack triggers a critical hit?
Yes since Ray of Frost has an attack roll and thus can crit.


A multiclass rogue/mage should be able to sneak attack with a Scorching Ray?
Yes since Scorching Ray has an attack roll and can thus hit. Only ony ray would get the extra damage though, since Sneak Attack can only be used once per turn.


A multiclass ranger/druid with archery as his fighting style gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls with Fire Seeds?
No because attacks made with Fire Seeds are not done with a ranged weapon, which is required for the bonus from Archery to apply.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

No. Fire Seeds are, despite being physical objects, part of a spell. They are not ranged weapons.

No because attacks made with Fire Seeds are not done with a ranged weapon, which is required for the bonus from Archery to apply.

So, what's the difference between throwing a fire seed at someone and throwing a stone at that same target? Do you think the bonus should apply in the later case or only for objects that the book specifically describe as ranged weapons?

I must admit that I'm inclined toward allowing it because I see a nice crossclass synergy and no immediate balance concerns, but I could be convinced otherwise.

Cheers,

 

[Sage Genesis]

So, what's the difference between throwing a fire seed at someone and throwing a stone at that same target? Do you think the bonus should apply in the later case or only for objects that the book specifically describe as ranged weapons?

I must admit that I'm inclined toward allowing it because I see a nice crossclass synergy and no immediate balance concerns, but I could be convinced otherwise

*shrug*

I'm not really intent on convincing you of anything, I'm just answering your question about what the rules are. So here goes:

First, Fire Seeds is a spell because it self-evidently is. The attack is made using your spellcasting stats (usually Wisdom), not your weapon stats (usually Dexterity). They are not guided by aim but by magic.

Second, being a "ranged weapon" has certain mechanical consequences such as having two ranges (short and long) and requires weapon proficiency. Fire Seeds doesn't have two ranges because it's a spell. And there is no way to acquire "Fire Seeds" weapon proficiency as far as I can determine, meaning that all your attacks would be made with disadvantage. If you rule that Fire Seeds is a ranged weapon, it becomes less accurate. For everybody, not just the Ranger.

Third, thrown stones are an improvised weapon and as such are already covered in the rules.

Fourth, if the Fire Seeds were intended to count as a ranged weapon they would have been written in a different way. The rules of Next tend to be rather clear in terms of classifying things.



And finally... well, whatever. Like I said, I'm not here to convince you of anything. If you want to houserule Fire Seeds in your game, go nuts.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If you want to houserule Fire Seeds in your game, go nuts.

So you're saying you should refluff the spell as "Fire Nuts"?

 

[Sage Genesis]

So you're saying you should refluff the spell as "Fire Nuts"?

...

Dear god, this brings a meaning to Fire Seeds that I hadn't previously realized yet.

 

[Iosue]

...

Dear god, this brings a meaning to Fire Seeds that I hadn't previously realized yet.

Also explains why even rangers find them hard to aim as a ranged weapon...

 

[Dausuul]

By a strict reading of the rules, Sage Genesis is right; fire seeds does not mention "weapons," only a ranged attack roll, while the ranger ability specifies weapons.

That said, if a player wanted to do this, I'd be inclined to house rule that the ranger ability can be applied to spell attacks. Part of DMing is knowing when to be a stickler for the rules as written and when to let something slide, and this strikes me as the latter. +1 to hit on a handful of spell attacks isn't going to break the game. Let the players have this one so that later, when I have to be a hardass about something, they don't feel like I'm out to get them.